Neighbours ugly fence

[FenceDispute]

We have new neighbours, They have a field that runs alongside the back of our property and about 10 other houses, For many years the field was used for silage by the previous owner and most people have low 3ft fences to make the most of the countryside views.
The new people however have decided to turn it into an equine property, and keep horses on the field which no-one objects to. What we do object to though is the fencing they have used. Instead of traditional post and rail that is fitting for the environment they have used commercial grade green metal fencing similar to that used at inner city schools, prisons etc. It is not over 2 metres so technically planning permission isn't needed. They have put this fence at the bottom, as close as possible to the bottom of peoples gardens, to the extent when there is no hedge they've gone in a couple of foot to grab that bit of land as well!!
We all have incredibly shallow gardens so myself and various others now look out our back windows onto this monstrosity, not in keeping with a rural village and frankly makes it feel like we are in a prison.

They have enclosed 7 acres, I cant anticipate them simply changing it because we ask them nicely - Other than close our gardens off at great expense erecting our own fences what the hell can we do??

You don't own the view, but surely there is such a thing as loss of visual amenity in planning matters, where the fence borders a residential property, as opposed to a footpath, for example?

That fencing is awful. I think you're doing all you can. Speak to planning and grow stuff to try to prettify.

If you feel able, then I would tell the owners how you feel. Maybe in future they'll look at alternatives...

Bubbles. I'd accept a 6ft wooden fence. I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't complain about it. Green metal security fencing however I feel would contravene as it is not to the right tone. I will wait and see what planning/enforcement team come back with. Either way there's no winners. If it's got to come down they've lost money, if it stays they've destroyed the feel of our end of the village, it will result in us relocating and 2 other neighbors have said the same

Nell when I see them I will tell them I'm disappointed and the impact, ironically planning team have confirmed there's been no preplanning or consultations with then regarding stables or the ménage so they bought a house and land with no idea if they can even get planning permission for all their horses requirements

Such a shame they couldn't work with all the neighbours. It could have been worse but I agree it's just not in keeping is it

"The new people however have decided to turn it into an equine property, and keep horses on the field which no-one objects to."

While you may not object to it, equestrian use (under some circumstances) is a different land use in Planning terms to agricultural. It is possible that you might be able to use this to your advantage:

1. If they are keeping horses on the land in such a way that it constitutes equestrian use, they would need to seek Planning Permission to do so, and you could potentially influence the consent so that it includes Conditions to minimise the visual impact of the use (for example, prohibiting them from putting up f**g great steel mesh fences ).

2. Agricultural Permitted Development rights are always contingent on the work being reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture. If they've been installed for equestrian purposes, then they clearly aren't meeting that criteria.

Sensus I think I love you.
I presume change of use would be the planning department? Do I need to ask them to consider the change of use for equestrian or is that something they would automatically consider?
I don't want to annoy them by pointing out every little thing to them, but likewise if they only investigate specifically the elements that have been stated in a complaint I would of course want to add this angle also.

I presume change of use would be the planning department?

Yes; in the first instance, to start the ball rolling, you would need to contact the Enforcement Officer within your local Planning Department.

Do note the emphasis I've put of equestrian use differing from agricultural under some circumstances though. You can find out more by Googling something like 'Equestrian vs. agricultural land use", but in very basic terms:

1. If a horse is standing in a field eating grass, it's 'livestock', and hence the land use remains agricultural. It's allowed a temporary field shelter, but this must be portable, and must move regularly... the basic rule of thumb is that it mustn't occupy the same position for more than 28 days in a 6 month period. Google: "Woolly chickens" (I kid you not...) for the tedious case law on the latter.

2. If there is any equestrian-based business going on (livery or pony trekking, for example), or if the horses have a permanent shelter or stables on the land, or if there are any other accoutrements of equestrian use (jumps, a manege, etc.) on the land. then the horse becomes a horse, the land use becomes equestrian, and they need Planning Permission for the change of use.

at this precise time there are no horses there. They were turned out end of November, they escaped a few times and have eaten everything feasible on the field. It's like the somme out there so the horses were leaning into gardens and nibbling hedges. As the land has become a swamp they have temporarily moved the horses to a livery yard whilst they do the work necessary, so I suppose they could argue the horses are livestock, it's not until they start adding the other horse elements it becomes a horse.
For anyone from planning coming out now, they'll see a muddy swamp surrounded by security fencing. The horses left about 2 weeks ago

SandunesAndRainclouds how awful! Are you staying or do you plan to sell? I think it's much harder to cope with that sort of thing when it's a change from what you originally had. Sympathies to you and OP, it's legal but it still sucks.

When we looked at houses we found the first one charming and part of the charm was the fact that the small garden backed onto beautiful fields. I knew that a major road was planned for the area though, and when I looked it up, realized it would be fairly close. And then saw that near older sections of the road, they were building new developments right up to the road. So it would only be a matter of time before we lost one of the features that we loved.

I’d like to move, the new houses are ruining so many things about where I live. Some of the estate is already built and being lived in and the traffic increase (both in volume and speed) is horrendous. The noise of the building work is annoying not to mention an the eyesore. I think it is unlikely we will even be able to sell while it’s going on

It might be a case of waiting for them to hang themselves, then.

My experience of horsey people - and don't get me wrong, I'm against neither horses nor their owners, except for the fact that my last partner was one (an owner, that is), and my God did it empty my bank account - is that they'll want more and more facilities to go along with it as time goes on. There's a fair chance they'll cross the line at some stage, at which point you might lodge an objection.

Keep an eye out for them submitting any sort of legitimate equestrian-related Planning application, too - for example for a stable block - as this would be good evidence that the land use of the associated paddocks is also equestrian.

Sandunes a friend of ours sold their home when an estate was being built opposite so it is possible, it helped the first houses built were directly opposite so the buyers could see exactly how it would be. Do you know when the bit nearest you will be built and plan to sell then?

Sensus, my husband has a dislike of horses after his ex emptied his accounts for her horse!!
I must say whilst I'm not horsey I do love animals and wouldn't mind any creature. We moved our compost bin as soon as we saw the horses to make sure they couldn't get any cuttings, in this instance it's the owner I object to!

I know a lot of people who keep horses and a simple (low) electric fence is all that's required. It's how you move them between fields and pastures. There is no need for a fence like that at all

Will the horses be able to get to the fence? That might affect what you could grow up it.
Something like clematis montana grows very quickly and looks lovely.

I think the whole development will be completed by 2021. I have the plans which show that the garden is not directly overlooked. I just can’t see that anyone else would want to put up with the huge disruption at the end of the garden.

They’re about to fell all of the beautiful trees. It is utterly heartbreaking watching a piece of tranquility turned into concrete.

The council won’t tell them who has complained but which individual makes the call doesn’t make a difference - the land owners will no doubt take umbrage that they’ve been reported rather than approached and be even more reluctant to change that line of fencing. Whether it’s you or someone else reporting won’t change how it makes them feel.

It’s not really ‘accepting’ the loss of a view, it’s more accepting you had no legal right to the view in the first place. I have views over farmland and would be devastated to lose them so completely understand how you feel. The issue is, legally, the land owners are entitled to fence their boundaries.

You can’t know they’ve lied to you, plans could have changed, the contractor may have suggested it as the best solution after your conversation with them. I’d always give new neighbours the benefit of the doubt in the hopes of good relations long term. It’s hard to undo getting off on the wrong foot.

"The issue is, legally, the land owners are entitled to fence their boundaries. "

Not entirely true.

As I said above, if it's agricultural land, they are 'legally entitled' (have Permitted Development rights) to erect a fence if it is reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture.

I agree that it's not good to get off on the wrong foot, but that cuts both ways - and from the OP they are the newcomers, and they have acted very inconsiderately to a number of existing residents.

SandunesAndRainclouds don't give up entirely, it just takes the right person! We ended up with a house on an estate with a small garden, no fields anywhere to be seen. We might have bought "House #1" had we known exactly what was going to happen. The uncertainty is what killed it. The owner wasn't really honest about how close the road was going to be, and we felt he was pricing the house based on his experience, not what it would be like for the next owner.

If he had been more knowledgeable and realistic, I think we may have chosen it. Living on a construction site isn't great, but I used to live in a major US city and was used to constant construction noises (amongst other city noise).

Your house will lose value and that's unfortunate, but it sounds like you've enjoyed it and the right people will enjoy it next.

A fence like that is actually better for wildlife than a wooden fence as small mammals can get through it. It's a great surface to grow something up against

Olga post and rail is what i'd expect, it's the standard fencing with stock proof hedging like Hawthorne. The field with cows in has a combination of post and rail and the odd bit with wrought iron rails. None of which is above 4ft, certainly not 2 metres. The mesh is very tight so no chance of rabbits or badgers getting through. Mice maybe but that's really about all.

I have horses on my fields, as do a number of people around here. No planning permission required or sought by anyone. They graze and they are livestock. No-one is keeping them for a living. A few people have "temporary" field shelters. PP would be required for stables but the few people that have them, have had no difficulty getting that because it is seen as a reasonable if they have land. Ditto a horse walker locally as well. As I said before, we are green belt and AONB so highly controlled re planning.

As we are very controlled by planning policies in my village in terms of house extensions, garden offices, stables, and definitely no new houses, but no-one controls fences (unless they are over 2m) and no-one controls the use of fields by livestock: I think you may have some difficulty getting this fence removed. I cannot see that it is a "change of use" that a council would bother about. It is use of land that is suitable in the countryside and horses are considered livestock and agricultural in that they are not buildings! My land is classed as amenity land but now has horses on it. Other farmers' fields are agricultural and have a few horses on them. No planning permission sought by anyone.

It's like bubbles said locally to me, and anywhere else I've lived too.

Re the colour, not come across anything related to fencing, but I know a few people who have specifically been told by planning some things have to be painted dark green to fit in with the landscape, so it's unlikely that the council would agree the colour alone was not in keeping.

With regards to the height, I don't know any horse owner who prefers people to have access to their horses from overlooking gardens. You sound sensible but it only takes one entitled idiot to decide feeding the dear gee gees over the fence is a perk of the location.

Post and rail isn't exactly cheap, and unless they wanted to take on the backbreaking task of doing the whole lot by hand, the weather hasn't been suitable to do it otherwise. There's every chance they might be planning post & rail down the line, but reporting them, bitching about them not leaving you all extra garden where the hedge was/is and acting like your wants should dictate their use of land isn't going to help you.

You and the neighbours could all offer to put up post and rail if you're that bothered, or one of you could have bought the land yourselves.

If you have no joy with the Planners OP ad are left with the ugly fence problem.
I would think about planting hawthorne between your garden and the fence all the way along, a cheap option for you and all the neighbours, and it will grow up and through the green fence and it will be hidden from view in a couple of years.
A bunch of neighbours did something similar to hide an ugly green plastic wire fence and now it can't be seen at all even in winter.