Am I mad to consider this......

[bridgetjones1]

DH and I moved into a large 4 bedroom house 5 years ago. We knew it was a little dated but have to be honest we underestimated what needed doing.

We've totally renovated 80% of the house, put 2 log burners in, re-wired, had new windows, new staircase, created an en suite and new smaller bathroom. All of the windows are massive which means that you can't just buy curtain "off the shelf" they all have to be made to measure, which costs a small fortune.

We've also been undergoing 4 gruelling rounds of IVF, all of which have been unsuccessful. This has left us both feeling very depressed, but then late last year our beloved Niece died of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome at 16 months old. We're totally heartbroken and still very much grieving (I'm not sure whether this is playing a part in my thinking)

We're now totally out of money and owe about £10k to family & on credit cards.

We still need to do the kitchen and the massive garden. We've got a rental property with no mortgage on it. We tried to sell it earlier this year but the flat/apartment market in this city is just swamped so we rented it back out again (took about 36 hours to rent back out lol)

We're now considering re-mortgaging the rental property (about £40k) to pay off some debts and sort out the kitchen and some of the garden.

The rest of the work still to do in the house though has left me feeling totally and utterly overwhelmed and I feel as though we should not have bought this house. If we had managed to have children then it would have been a great house, but for the 2 of us plus our dog it feels massive and underused.

I've been lurking on rightmove for a while and have semi fallen in love with a property in a very rural location. Its £40k more expensive than what we paid for our current house (although I'm hoping that we've put at least that onto the value with the work we have already done), however this new house is a fraction of the size of our current house, but crucially everything is done! The garden is gorgeous and literally perfect for our dog.

Am I mad to consider a move to a more expensive & smaller house or have I just got renovation/financial/grieving blues?

Sometimes what looks done is not that great when all the furniture is out. How in walls, rewire needed, marks on floor under sofa and so on. Are they taking the curtains for instance?

Not necessarily mad - have you given up the idea of children completely? Thought about adoption? If so then go and look at the house - might not be so wonderful in real life. If you still want it then go for it.

House moves are very stressful. Do you want that on top of everything else? You would have to get your house presented for sale, tidy the garden up and so on, could you face that?
The only way to know about the other house is to go and look. Preferably on a rainy grey day when it looks at its worst. Imagine it without the current owners furniture and curtains- so much is down to how a room is "dressed".

As for curtains btw, it's really easy to make your own, plus you can get some good fabric bargains on eBay with a bit of trawling.

Bilbodog - unless we get a miracle then yes pretty much given up. We've been to an adoption meeting and looked into it and feel that overall it's just not for us x

I am also living in a not quite finished house which we bought as a long term project 11 years ago! We never have quite enough money to get it finished, we still need to do the driveway, back garden, upstairs bathroom and various others odds and sods. Recently I have been thinking the same as you, should we just sell it as it is and move somewhere smaller but finished. I'm still in 2 minds to be honest, Dh and I have agreed that the first step is to get it valued as it is and see if it would be worth it financially. I go round and round the pros and cons but it is never going to be an easy decision.

I really feel for you. It's easy to associate a house with unhappiness and then become fixated that a move would solve everything.

Personally, when I wasn't in a great place mentally (PND) I upped sticks and moved back to the UK only realise that my new house was a rash decision, and only seven years later are we finally in a position financially to move again. I should not have made such a massive decision with depression.

I would talk it over with trusted friends and family and be absolutely certain you aren't pinning unrealistic hopes of being happier elsewhere.

First things first, you are clearly in a really bruised and vulnerable state right now, which is not a good place to make decisions for some people. I made the mistake of moving from the city to the countryside in a similar state, and it was one of the worst mistakes of my life. I hated rural living so much! I'm not saying that because it was bad for me it'll be bad for you - but do think carefully about making big decisions when you are basically grieving doubly, for the loss of your ability to have children and for your poor niece.

Secondly, it's easy to see a lovely house on Rightmove and to think that it's perfect, only to move in and find there's quite a bit of redecorating and recarpeting to do. Don't do anything without viewing the house very closely, with a critical eye.

Thirdly, since finances are a bit of an issue (and no wonder after IVF), have you thought about downsizing to a cheaper rather than a more expensive place that is more local to you? It could relieve some financial pressure and give you and your husband more disposable income to do lovely things to recover - like going away on loads of holidays, going out a lot etc. Doing those things really helped me to cope with giving up on having children. It's like you have to re-embrace the idea that your life will be different, but that there are really cool things about that difference.

Thank you everyone for you comments.

I definitely think I do associate unhappiness with the house. Five years ago we were so full of confidence, we thought we were being so prepared by buying the family house before a family came along, never knowing that it would never happen for us. I do like what we've done to the house and friends/family rave about it but it's lost its shine somewhat recently.

You are also right in what you say though, moving house is very stressful and the thought of getting it ready for the market and all the mess that comes with it is not appealing at all.

I definitely do think I'm very much in the "pursuit of happiness" phase, and am chasing the next thing that I'm positive will make us happy.

whiskyowl - thank you for your lovely message and I'm sorry that you've also faced a life without children that you wanted. We've talked about moving to a smaller place, and I think we will eventually do it, but we feel that without the kitchen being done it would be difficult to sell (it really is falling to pieces).

Booking holidays is our big joy at the moment. We adore our dog and go on as many holidays in the UK with him, we have 2 booked already this year. I don't know about you but I know quite a few couples without children (through choice) and they seem, at least on the outside, to be very happy and content with their choice. I know its a process and we will get there we just need to embrace the life that we have and make the most out of our situation.

Oh and just to kick us up the butt when we're down, our boiler broke on Tuesday - it is 20 years old so knew it was on borrowed time. Plumber says it cannot be repaired so that's another £2k to find. Oh and it's bloody freezer.

But hey ho always look on the bright side of life

freezing

We did similar, bought the do-er upper to create the prefect family home for the children that never arrived. So sold it up to buy a trendy house for grown ups.
I hated the second house. It mocked my childlessness just as much as the old "family house"

PollyBanana - I'm so sorry, it really does suck doesn't it.

I think we'll just stay put until we can make a rational decision.

x

I would remortgage flat to finish the house then think again about moving.
Why move to a more expensive place and increase your debt?

bridget I think you put it absolutely perfctly. It is about a process. At the beginning, when it's all raw, it's hard to imagine ever feeling better. Every aspect of your life has been under tremendous strain - your body, your relationship, your finances. Not to mention that it takes time and energy to reimagine your future. For a long time, I really couldn't see further ahead in time than the end of the day. I just felt like I was sleepwalking through life in a state of numbness. Part of the reason I made a big and drastic move is that I thought it would force me to reengage with life. But actually, it was a big mistake, a big misstep, and it just prolonged feelings of uncertainty and upset for longer.

I think sometimes the best you can do is to be gentle to yourself. Go away on loads of breaks. Eat lots of lovely food. Take up a craft that you've always wanted to learn. Join a book group. Catch up with friends you haven't seen for years and deepen your relationship with friends who are closer. Rest, relax and recuperate.

Oh, and I swear boilers just have some metallic sixth sense where they just know when the most inconvenient time is to blow. . However, I just had mine replaced and I have to say that the heat levels in the house are absolutely lovely now. So even though at the time I was all huffy about spending £2k on a giant kettle, I must grudgingly admit that it has been rather nice.

For the garden - could this be a bit of a project you take on yourself? I've become a massive gardening enthusiast because it is the one thing that has made me feel creative and satisfied in the wake of everything. It's amazing what you can achieve for very little money by yourself. You don't have to spend £££ on landscaping to build something amazing.

whiskyowl - I'm definitely in the category of put it to the back of my mind and try and forget all about it. A lot of grief we felt for our niece dying was tied up in grief we felt for our own lack of family. I've never seen my DH breakdown like he did. We've never really addressed it, so when you're faced with an horrific event like we did it brings all sorts feelings to the surface that you had tried hard to bury.

You offer and suggest great advice, I've always wanted to join a book club so maybe that's something I should pursue.

I'm so looking forward to the boiler being installed. A digital display is making me positively giddy lol!

You are so right on the garden front, my lack of confidence in knowing actually what I'm doing is making me a little hesitant but this spring/summer I'm going to give it a good go and get myself out there.

bridget - there's a really nice gardening forum on here - I used to be a member but got told off for posting too much! I am sure they could help you get started. A lot of it is very simple - it's just there are some rally straightforward mistakes that lead to plants dying, and that is very disheartening. Just being out in the sunshine (or even in the rain!) and creating something alive and growing made me feel loads better!

I know what you mean about the digital display. I have a thermostat. An actual thermostat that measures the temperature so you don't have to go to the boiler and turn it on and off manually. I LIVE IN THE FUTURE!!

whiskyowl that sounds way harsh I'll take a look though, thank you x

oooh now a thermostat, we've not even discussed that. That would be boiler Nirvana :-)

It wasn't HQ - I got sent anonymous messages! Everyone on there is lovely, though - hope they can help you!

Polly - that is a heartbreaking but very insightful observation of your 2nd home.

OP - so, so sorry for your dual loss - horrific in every way.
You can run from grief/pain but you cant hide. Bit like the children's book "Going on a Bear Hunt" - cant go over it, cant go under it - got to go through it.....

I made a mad rash decision when I lost my mother suddenly in horrific circumstances - bought a holiday house abroad on a massive mortgage - cant sell it, worth less than I paid, not been for years, makes me feel sick just thinking about it.

I do think that you need to finish your current house to sell it - otherwise you will have another regret of selling it too cheaply. if you have lost interest in your house - maybe ask a friend or family member to project manage or support decision making for you -- I would love to do something like that! Borrowing £40 on the BTL sounds sensible - as it will give you the momentum / capacity to move things along and make decisions.

But living a good life, being kind to yourself, minute by minute is the only way to heal. Have you or your DH sought counselling to come to terms with your losses?

Hi OP. I'm so sorry for the situation you find yourself in, losing your niece on top of everything else is an unbelievably cruel blow.

We're currently in the process of starting extensive, expensive plans to turn our two up two down into a three bed family home. In the last two years I've had one miscarriage, and then an unexplained failure to get pregnant. I'm still at the start of the fertility journey and hopeful things will work out, but DH and I have already had the discussion that if things ultimately don't work out, we'll sell this house. For him, it's his dream forever home, for me it's the house I want to raise my family in- we've chosen this house because of schools, community, etc etc and i entirely understand why you feel the need to move.

I also agree with others it's not something to rush. I had a lovely, incredibly helpful conversation with a colleague shortly after my miscarriage- I said something that she guessed meant we were having fertility investigations and she shared her journey through IVF, and decision to stop and accept there wouldn't be children. It was actually really helpful to see there is a happy alternative- she has a great marriage, and great life, and has accepted that while it's sad she couldn't conceive she is fulfilled and happy where she is now.

I think it understandably sounds like you've a while to go before you're at that point. Deciding where you want to live for a life that is different to how you planned may just be a decision you have to make when you're more at peace with that life, and have more of an idea what shape it will hold.

If staying in the house feels unbearable, could you consider renting it out once it's done up and trying on different areas for size? You could rent a city flat, or a country cottage, for six months/a year and then see first hand the pros and cons.

Mostly, be kind to yourself and give yourself time. I know I'm still at a very early part in this journey but looking back on 2017 I can't believe how it was all lost to planning around fertility, holding out on making decisions to go on holidays and to concerts and weddings because I might be pregnant then. Time broke down into cycles that were somehow both too short and too long. I feel like I lost a year of my life, and much of the preceding years too. This pressure of time running out and decisions needing to be made, it can distort your attitude. Give yourself the gift of enough time to make the decision, to grieve your losses, and I hope it brings you to a happier place.

Thank you for your lovely replies

another20 I've never heard that phrase before and it's very appropriate. I think a lot of the time we do try to run away from our grief, but sooner or later it does catch up with you - until I read your message I'd never considered that I was running away from my grief but that is such an accurate description.

I'm so sorry that you lost your mum in horrific circumstances, that must have been very hard for you. I think we like to have something to distract us with, and that exciting purchase abroad, or the house move, or that new job, its just a distraction from what's really going on.

I really do hope you get a resolution one way or another on your property abroad, you never know how the market will go......

regarding professional help, I've considered counselling several times, the IVF clinic offered a free service after each of our rounds but I never felt brave enough to go. I suppose I was afraid of what would come out lol.

After our niece died we spoke to the Lullaby Trust, who were just amazing, they gave us some really good advice on how to deal with our grief and also how to deal with our families grief. You never consider your families grief, you think losing a loved one is the worst thing ever, and it is, but to see your Sister and the rest of the family broken, and not knowing how to console them or make it better is not something I had considered until this tragedy happened to our family.

whattoweartomorrow - I'm so sorry for your loss. Even after a miscarriage you must have never thought that you couldn't get pregnant again. You hear it so often from Dr's and Nurses that miscarriages are very common etc etc - still doesn't make it any better.

You are so right though about your life being on hold. Ours has been on hold effectively since 2015. We haven't been able to live a carefree life, as we've always had to consider our next round of IVF. Such as booking holidays, we'd think well that's 6 months after we're planning our next round of IVF, what if I'm pregnant?? Well better not book that then. IVF is truly gruelling, no amount of someone telling you how gruelling will prepare you, but at the end of the day if you got a precious baby then it would have all been worth it.

If you do get to the IVF stage (and I hope you do not need it) the one bit of advice I could give you is that as long as you take your drugs when you should do, keep active (walking is fab) and follow a healthy balanced diet then there really is nothing else within your power that you can do to influence the outcome. It took me a long time to realise that, I blamed myself for our failures for eating some carbs that fertility "guru's" had told me were strictly forbidden, for having that one very small glass of red wine a month before we started IVF, or not being quite as slim as I could have been.

You've all offered great advice, I think remortgaging the rental flat is going to be the way forward for us, and then we'll see how we feel about the house once the kitchen and garden are complete. I used to live in a city, hated the traffic with a passion but loved being so close to everything. We now live in a suburb, so if we do move it will probably be either back to the city or into the countryside.

Bridget just wanted to say that I'm so sorry for all you've been through and all that you're going through. We chose our house to start our family in. Knew which rooms would be the DC's and where the nursery would go etc. Then discovered we couldn't have children so had 6 rounds of Ivf which never worked. For a long time I hated the house. Kind of resented all the dreams it held if that makes sense. I desperately wanted to move as I felt like it would be drawing a line and physically moving would help me move on emotionally. But honestly I'm not sure it would have. After a couple of years I focused on making it into a home for DH and I and I like it again now. It felt exactly like we had paused life for years, whilstvevryone else carried on. I totally get that.

I can't really advise you what to do as grief is such a personal thing and I haven't also experienced the tragic loss you have, but I would consider slowing everything down for a while. Just to catch your breath and give you space to grieve. There will be other perfect houses if you still feel it's the right thing. I think your plan sounds good.

Do think about taking up the free counselling offered by your clinic. You could always just go for one session and see how it feels. Your DH might find it useful too (though obviously you can go separately too).

Sorry that wasn't much help. Just know you're not alone and I really hope life starts being kinder to you.

EnidButton Thank you so much for sharing your story and I'm so sorry you have had to endure 6 rounds of IVF. I know how tough it is. Everyone always says it will be all worth it when you get your baby, and they are right, but we never consider the sacrifice and emotional upheaval when you don't get that happy ending.

You put it so well, like you we chose the family house, like you knew which rooms we would use for nursery etc. I'd even sneak on the John Lewis website and take a look at the nursery furniture imagining what I'd have in those rooms. I know people will ask "why torture yourself" but I felt at times I just couldn't resist.

I really hope we can fall in love with our house again, your advice about slowing everything down is a good one and I'll definitely try to do that.

You always think you're alone in this, I'm humbled by the amount of people who have commented on here who are/have been in the same position.

xxx