To extend or not?

[Kleptronic]

I'm after advice, this is long, sorry.

I'm not feeling confident at the grown-up stuff and have no-one else to ask.

I have a 1936 built 3 bed semi-detached house in Liverpool with a 90ft garden. It was in a poor state when I bought it for £129,950 4 years ago. Many neighbours have extended/done loft conversions. No space for a side return.

It is now worth (according to the Halifax) 160k. I owe 103k on the mortgage. I have had rooms plastered, the back rendered, new front bay windows, a circuit breaker board put in, a new roof (the old one was sliding off) in the years we've been here. A new bathroom but I was burned with that one and it needs doing again.

I have a dc who is coming up for 14 at Easter. This is relevant because of timings/exam disruption.

My mortgage deal is up, and I can remortgage as follows:

a) 135k for 5 years fixed (repayments up from £560 to £740, top of my budget) leaving 32k for a single story pitched roof with Velux windows and some kind of glass exterior doors 6m extension. I am waiting on the bank to see if I've got this money. I'd be looking to remodel the under stairs/kitchen area to try and get a downstairs loo/utility as well as knock through to the back room and have one big kitchen/diner/back room.

b) remortgage current amount for 2 years and try to overpay wildly. Then see where I am. But the dc would be coming up for 16 - exams.

c) remortgage for 5 years and forget about it because of Brexit.

d) remortgage as per a) but do the loft out instead, hip-to-gable. This is the dc’s preferred option, but I think from an invest-in-the-house-as-an-asset sense, a kitchen you can get a washing machine/drier/dishwasher in is a better prospect. We don’t need an extra bedroom.

Complications:
i) A brick and tile pitched roof shed with a cold water standpipe (where my washer and dryer are now, there is no room in the tiny kitchen) would need knocking down (but the neighbour's shed leaving up! They are together under the pitched roof).

ii) A soil pipe moving from the back to the side of the house (others have done this so convinced the drains go around rather than under the house) but this would mean a new bathroom? Or do you just box them in? It is old, corroded but still sound, but needs replacing anyway.

iii) There is a tree (silver birch) which would be within 3ft of the new extension

iv) The boiler would need moving/replacing. It is an 8 years old Potterton floor-standing 30w behemoth with a cylinder in the bedroom upstairs, so take out the boiler and cylinder and put a combi in the bedroom cupboard.

In short, I don’t know my arse from my elbow with building/renovating and have no clue. I have asked people who have had work done, and they seem to think I could get a) done for that money, round here (they don't know about the complications). I’m not talking high-end finishes, but not cheap. Medium, you know. Planner rather than architect. Non-VAT registered builders. Subcontractors. I know a plasterer, a tiler and a plumber. Much faff, with my full-time job, two dogs and a teen to wrangle.

Brexit/interest rates scare me a lot. But wasting the opportunity/house does too. Age is against me, and it’s now/in two years or never really.

What would you do, please?

Hi Kleptronic

Am in a very similar position to you so watching very carefully. Sorry I have no wisdom to offer you yet. Good Luck!

See you on the other side.

Get a builder to come round and give an estimate for the work? Option a sounds great but is it actually possible in that budget?

I agree, get a couple of architects & builders round to quote & confirm if possible for option a and d.
If neighbours have done similar extensions don't be afraid to knock and ask them which architect/builders they used and if they can confirm where pipes may be.
Once you know how much it will cost/if it's possible then you can think. Personally I'd go for option a if possible.

People (with builders they have recommended) are telling me you can get a box on the back for 10-15k. My friend over the road (but different house, Edwardian) got hers extended and loft converted to a very high standard for 60k but in reality I have no clue.

Honestly I would have a rethink , is this space for you or with an eye on reselling ? Or a bit of both ? . If I've got this right there is you and a 14 year old ? I would maybe scale it back abit , I would worry that if I were the sole earner and only person in the house hold capable of working adding 30k to the mortgage could be abit risky. 6m out is quite big could you go to say 3m? still a fair extension if there are just 2 of you.

Well there is no space, zero space, and masses of garden. The main thing which does my head in is the kitchen (a minute square). I like to cook and do so from scratch and I bake stuff too. I am constantly precariously balancing things on the toaster, the microwave, the coffee machine.

Then there is the lack of a system for laundry. It does my head in shlepping everything to the shed and back, and then there's nowhere to put it, and nowhere to iron it, my front (best!) room is the laundry room. I can't just do it load by load either with the job, teen and dogs. Teen has multiple sports, school uniform, extra curricular stuff, cadets...many clothes. Many shoes/boots. Many bags of stuff.

Then there is having an eye on the future. It'll be the dc's inheritance one day. But really, it's for me. I can't spend the rest of my life juggling clothes and pans and washing up I just can't! I've heard it's more expensive to do a smaller space per square foot than larger? But this might be insane thinking. I do get what you're saying about the sole earner and mortgage though.

I don't think 32k all that you want i.e. Extension with 2 walls knocked down, new kitchen, loo/utility.

What if you knock through kitchen/ dining room and then rebuild and enlarge the shed( im assuming leads off the kitchen?) to include a loo.

Sounds like you have added value to your house. Is there a secret option e - buy a bigger house that needs more work and/or has a smaller garden? It would probably be quicker than going all the stages and stress of a build and if you are thinking of remortgaging up to £135k then you have a budget of up to £195k minus fees to go shopping with.

The kitchen is driving you mad. I wouldn't do the loft extension in preference to moving the washing machine into the house. But option a does sound like a bit of a stretch.

OK, my first point is temporal. You can't think of a house as a child's inheritance any more. The chances are most of the value of all of our residences will be eaten up in care home fees as we get older. Think shorter term than this - what are your plans in 10 years, 15 years? You have a child who may well have left home in 4-5 years. Will they be relying on your through uni? Do you intend to stay in the house in 10 years or would you downsize? Can you pay off the mortgage in a reasonable timeframe if you take a chunk of cash out for the extension? Are you over-exposed if interest rates rise?

Secondly, be realistic about costs. I agree with PPs that it's unlikely you'll be able to build an extension that large for £32k to second fix. Even with non-VAT registered people, and help from friends and relations, it's likely to come to a bit more than that. I don't think you're miles out, though - I would say in the late £40ks/early £50ks is more likely, if you are really careful to control costs.

Thirdly, be realistic about house values. You're in the same boat as I am - your house is relatively inexpensive, but in an area where values are rising fairly fast. However, building costs are still relatively large as a chunk of its value. This means that there is a chance you will be sinking money into the build that you don't get back very quicky in terms of house price. If you're not intending to move, this isn't a big issue. If you are, it could mean that you effectively lose some cash.

All that said, I am not a big fan of thinking of housing solely as an investment. I know a lot of people on here do this, but homes are also places to live. It sounds as though a better configuration of space downstairs would make a serious difference to your life, as well as adding value to the house. Those things are serious 'plusses', especially if you are going to stay long term.

Well £35k is tight.

You don't need an extra bedroom and a loft extension would just further imbalance the lack of space downstairs.

Get a builder around to quote you.

Is the tree protected?

Obviously move. It won’t be worth extending if prices do not reflect the money spent. Only stay if you must be in that area and in that road and in that house. You do not have enough money to do everything you want. The garden will also be messed up so that’s more expense.

This is all great food for thought, thank you everyone.

Could you reconfigure the back room and the kitchen to get some more space and then build a lean-to type thing to the side or back for the washing machine and dryer?

If you have a typical 30s semi, you could block the door to the kitchen, knock down the wall between the kitchen and back room. Then have the kitchen as a U shape with the open end into the back room.

I am no expert but our silver birch had to come down OR our foundations had to be twice as deep and therefore build cost pretty much doubled. Tree came down, sadly, as it was beautiful.

Tomorrow I will post pictures. There's no room at the back/side for a lean-to. The shed's in the way.

I'd be staying here 10 years to see the kid through uni.

Moving's not an option - I'd get the same for more money round here!

There are only 2 of you. Reconfigure the downstairs to have an open plan kitchen diner. Possibly add in a conservatory with v good heating.

It's not going to add value so don't spend the money...

My castle.

The scullery.

The wash house.

Have you got a 2 or 3 bed? If a 3 bed, what do you use the room for?

Sorry can you draw a floor plan??

A kitchen with fewer internal corners and wide drawers fit an awful lot more in. It looks like you have more units than us and we're a family of 6!! It would be good to look at the potential of changing the downstairs to make a kitchen diner or completely open plan.

First thing though do a ruthless declutter and look at floor to ceiling storage in all rooms!

The kitchen would do better if you move the fishtank into another room, get one of those chopping boards that go over sink/drainer, and a cooker with a flat glass top so it's also useful worktop. I wonder if there's another solution for the microwave too.

A double galley is fantastically efficient both for worktop and storage - no wasted corners. Difficult without a floor plan but I wonder if you can tweak the kitchen either by reconfiguring internally or a really modest affordable extension. It only needs to be a little bigger to get a very workable double galley which would feel much more generous.

Could you knock walls and make it all open again kitchen living area with lots of storage. That would be cheaper.
And get rid of the fish tank!

It's a three bed, the box room has a single bed in it for my niece and a desk and chair as I work from home 2 days a week.

I need to buy a sturdy stand for the fish tank - it was in the bedroom but cracked the pine drawers it was stood on, it's very heavy - but yes that is totally in the way! It's only got 7 mountain minnows in it!

I'm not sure how I'd gain from knocking through for a kitchen/diner because I'd lose a whole upper storey of cupboards.

Here's a picture of the rest of the kitchen - the first was taken on the door threshold - this is to the right and under the stairs. I know I can brick up the back door but it wouldn't get me more space because the fridge door...

I will try and draw a floorpan. It will be rudimentary.

I don’t think you will be able to do the extension, have glass sliders and a new kitchen for 32k.

That is super tight.