Paging PigletJohn - or anyone who knows about boilers

[SoupyNorman]

Seeking advice.

We moved into our new house last year - it has a Potterton Profile 80e boiler which seems to be about 10-15 years old. So a conventional boiler plus a hot water tank. The boiler has stopped working intermittently, and won't fire up reliably (will do in the morning when on a timer, but at not other times during the day, oddly).

Had a plumber out today, and he said the boiler was v old, we would struggle to get parts, and it wasn't a good investment to be spending 100s of pounds on repairing.

He recommended a new boiler (Baxi platinum), a switch to a combi system, resiting the boiler down in the cellar and removing the water tanks from the hot press and the attic.

Does this sound like the right course of action? The price quoted was around £2k for all parts and installation. The house has 1 shower over bath, 5 bedrooms, but we do shower/bath every day.

Combis are rubbish. Not suitable for a five bed house!

Mega-Flo system is what you want. More power and hot water at mains pressure.

sure @PigletJohn will come along and enlighten you

Thanks - wonder why the plumber was so keen to get me a combi.

The Megaflow is the cylinder, is that right? Does it need a separate boiler as well?

Hopeful bump for @PigletJohn...

The 80e was last manufactured in 2001. At best your boiler is 17 and likely worth replacing. A new one will get everything up to temp much more quickly and be more efficient.

I don't know where you live but 2k to move it seems reasonable, albeit I would install a WB not a BAXI.

A properly sized combination boiler will have no trouble with your radiator heating requirements. They do struggle to heat sufficient water instantaneously if undersized. If you only have one bathroom a combination boiler could work fine, assuming you have good cold water mains pressure. Whether you shower all day long isn't an issue - it's competing usage that might be if you had two showers on the go simultaneously, say.

You will probably want 11/12litres per minute which may mean getting a slightly bigger boiler than your CH requirements strictly dictate.

You sound like you know what you're talking about Craigavad. So we would look for a large combi boiler - 30/40kw?

It might be that we would look to put in a second shower in about 10 years time. Do you think that would make a difference?

I'd be looking at the WB Greenstar CDI range. They are all 30kw CH output - the HW range differs from 11l/min to 15l/min.
If you do put in another shower consider how often, in reality, both will be going at the same time.
You need to select your make and choose from within that manufacturers' range - taking advice from, I'd suggest, an approved WB installer on the ground. He or she can look at the site specifics and advise accordingly.

Thanks that's v helpful.

Any thoughts on going for a like-for-like replacement ie sticking with a regular (non-combi) boiler ?

Baxis are not good combis - we had awful problems with one and were told so.

No reason not to, if it works for you currently. You could still move your boiler to get it out of the way (albeit accessible) and the new boiler will be cheaper than a combination. I'd still get a WB!
Your plumber who recommended a combination will likely have his beady eye on the scrap value of your copper cylinder!
Again, I'd decide on the make you want and get three quotes from local approved installers. You can quiz them on the merits or demerits of going to a combination v not and then appropriate sizing for each option.

I think a combi is a bad idea for anyone who has space for a water tank. No backup ( as no immersion), poor flow and no resilience against power outage.

Instinctively I'm a bit wary of (a) going for a totally new boiler system for a large house, where we quite liked the heating/hot water system as is, and where there is plenty of space for the water tank which is already installed.

Also wary of (b) placing a boiler in the cellar - any flooding or very cold weather would make me a bit anxious, plus I think it's likely to be far less accessible down there.

Having another guy come round in the morning for another opinion, and have asked the original guys to quote for a like-for-like replacement.

A Potterton Profile is a good boiler with an average life of approx 25 years. The parts are readily available - you can check with your local plumb/part centre to confirm.

If you can hear the fan start and stop within a second or two, and do this repeatedly it is possible that the air pressure switch has failed, but it is much more likely to be the printed circuit board, (approx £130-150 plus labour and VAT). You can google Control Engineering Technology for reconditioned PCB at lower cost. ( I don't work for them, I promise!)

A Mega-Flo system is very good however it is very expensive. You would only gain the full benefits of it by having a large bore water-main all the way from the street to the Mega-Flo. Combi would be considerably cheaper but even cheaper still is to repair the profile, as any modern boiler is only likely to last 10-15 years. The best combi on the market is a Worcester Greenstar CDI.

Interesting, FrayedHem thank you. After being on the blink all yesterday, the boiler started working last night, and came on again on the timer this morning. But after having switched off at the end of the timed session, now will not fire up again.

I was a bit bemused when yesterday's plumber didn't even look at the boiler or its workings, and simply said it needed to be replaced. I'll ask the guy who's coming round today if it's possible to repair.

Potterton Profile, splendid boiler.

Not as old as a Silver Ghost and easier to maintain.

You just need to find someone local who likes them.

There will be such people.

They are likely to be well over 16. They will be people whose main interest is not to sell you a rubbishy combi every five years

My boiler isn't a potterton, but it is a conventional boiler (hot water tank etc) and it's 25 years old. It went wrong last year (first time in 9 years) and needed a replacement part, which there was no problem in finding one, just took a couple of days to get hold of it. I know it will conk out for good at some point, but I don't see the need to replace til then, so I agree with Piglet John!

It's a balancing act. You have two main choices when dealing with an aged appliance; bite the bullet and replace or nurse something along with a sense of pride. The factors in your decision-making are likely (but not exclusively):
Your appetite for sourcing spare parts and people to fit them;
Your appetite for the risk of waking up/coming home to a cold house in future (of course this could happen with your new boiler - no guarantees in life);
Your budget;
Whether you are having work done around your boiler which you wouldn't want to have to disturb in, say 2 years, when it finally dies;
Your desire for energy efficiency;
And on, and on. It's not a science.
All this forum can do is suggest whether certain makes or designs are good or bad (on the basis of fairly anecdotal experience) and allow others to determine their course of action accordingly.

I readily admit I am no expert however I am surprised at those saying a combi boiler isn’t a good fit for a larger house. I’ve lived in some very large houses and replaced the heating systems and have always gone for combis (most recently a Valliant eco tech in our latest house) and never had any problems. Obviously you have to fit the size of the boiler to the size of the house but I find them really good and cheap to run and fix!

Just had a google being nosey for myself and found this which lays out pros and cons for each type- www.ahp-boilerservices.co.uk/latest-news-blog/78-which-is-best-for-me-a-mega-flow-or-combination-boiler

the link seems to forget that both combis and unvented cylinders need a substantial incoming water flow, so an older house will often need a new water supply pipe out to the pavement, and larger pipe all the way to the boiler or cylinder. This is not a very arduous task for a sturdy woman with pick and shovel, unless you have concrete ground floors and concrete drives or patios all round your house. The trench does not need to follow the same route as the old pipe.

If you have poor incoming flow and don't want to change the pipes, IMO you are better off with a loft tank storing the cold water. This, with a vented cylinder and conventional boiler, is an uncomplicated and rather simple system, so some people sneer at it, especially if it is 50 years old and has never been maintained. It can work very well, except that showers will be feeble unless pumped. With good piping, it can fill a hot bath much quicker than a combi. Any system with a cylinder can (should) have the option to heat the hot water with an immersion heater if (when) the boiler breaks down, removing the urgency. Electricity is a much more expensive source of energy than gas. Cylinders can also sometimes be heated with solar or multifuels. There is a body of opinion that combis break down more often, or more catastrophically, than conventional boilers, and have fewer bits that can safely be DIY fixed.

When a combi breaks down, you're stuffed, with both heat and hot water gone. The installer looks forward to selling you a new one.

We have a Potterton Profile 50e, 17 years old that stopped firing up in the weekend. The plumber came out today, checked it out and concluded a technical fault with the circuit board. He had no problem finding a new board, installed it and all is working fine again. He said these boilers are built to last.