Doing up a 70's house

[Overthehillsandfaraway8]

We are renting a 70s house at the moment which needs a lot of work if we were to buy it. It's not our ideal house but we're exhausted looking for somewhere to buy and can't face moving again. I have never had to do lots of work to a house and have no real idea what it would cost. Has anyone any experience of this?

The sellers want a ridiculous amount considering what needs done and the market at the moment, but we are thinking of putting in a low offer with a list of what is wrong with the house:

Needs new bathroom
Rewiring
Complete redecoration, and wooden floors downstairs, recarpeted upstairs
Horrible metal ventilation grills in rooms which I want removed
New cupboards in kitchen and possibly work done in utility as there is little storage
Possible ensuite put in where there is a storage room which is long and narrow
Garden needs landscaping and a lot of shrubs and a couple of large trees cut down
New patio laid
Driveway needs paving
New doors
Woodburner put in but there is no chimney?

The floors and walls internally are thin and noise carries ridiculously, but i don't suppose there's much to be done about that
Damp coming through from the bathroom into downstairs study

The house has four bedrooms and a study.

I reckon at least 50 grand, but i may be underestimating.

Help!

OK, first things first. There's a conceptual shift between buying and renting. With rent, they money you pay each month is the money your housing costs. With ownership, the money you pay on your mortgage is just the money you are paying back on a loan you took out to buy the property in whatever state it was in at a particular moment in time. You need to add maintenance and improvement costs on top of that and they will be ongoing.

Some of the things you are listed would normally be seen as part of those maintenance costs. They wouldn't normally lead to a big price reduction on viewing a house. It would be bonkers unusual for a buyer to say to a vendor that they expected a reduction on a house because the garden wasn't landscaped, for instance. (The garden being a total tip that requires several skips to empty might be another matter). Things like internal doors are "sold as seen" normally. If the kitchen is old and "in need of modernisation" (in the parlance of estate agents) the price for the house should already reflect that. If it is overpriced for your local market, you need to make a lower offer. However, the fact that you're not finding other houses in your price bracket that you're jumping at suggests that maybe this isn't such a bad option after all?. You are in a good position to demand a bit of a reduction if your landlord doesn't need to use an estate agent because he has tenants willing to buy!

In terms of costs, a lot of the things you're talking about doing are cosmetic, and it's hard to give you a cost because you can spend any amount of cash on them depending on your tastes. Engineered wood flooring tends to be more expensive than carpet, for instance, parquet is more expensive still. For the things that aren't cosmetic -the rewire is probably a few thousand. Don't underestimate the disruption of doing all the work - it will be tough to live through and you may not find it any easier than moving.

It's very difficult to give costs because - as whiskyowl has already said - you can spend hugely differing amounts on a lot of tasks. For example depending upon the kitchen size, the finish you want and how much work you are willing and able to do yourself you could spend anywhere from 5k to 50k on a new kitchen. Different jobs also cost differently depending on where you are in the country - in some ways you are ideally placed because already being in the house means it should be quite easy for you to get actual estimates for some of the jobs you want to have done.

However, living in the house already may also be something of an issue. It gives you a completely different perspective to house buyers who traditionally see the property on just a couple of occasions before deciding to buy. You know the things that you don't like far more intimately than the average buyer, which may be skewing your perception of its worth compared to what others may think.

Much of what is on your list as things which need to be done could very well be argued to be preference. For example if the house has central heating, it would be hard to argue that is needs a woodburner - nice as they are to have. If the bathroom is functional (which it presumably is because you are using it) then updating the bathroom still comes under a preference, as does doing things like increasing storage in the utility. This isn't to say that these things don't reduce the value of a property because they make it less desirable, but it is important to remember that any property is only worth what someone will pay for it. To someone the issues you list may be unimportant and they may love something about the house which means they will pay the price being asked.

Some of the other issues sound like things your landlord ought to be sorting now though. If the house needs rewiring because it isn't safe, that is currently their responsibility. Damp is another issue which ought to be fixed, and certainly an issue for negotiation on price if they won't address it.

At the end of the day, you need to decide what you think the property is worth and what you can afford, and offer accordingly. It's then up to the vendor whether they accept.

Have you an example of a house which is for sale/recently sold that you can compare to? You need that to show that this house is worth x much less I think.

I agree with caoian, most of what you have listed is a want and not a need.
My 1970's house didn't need a full rewire, just a suggestion to update the fuse box which was about £300. The kitchen and bathroom were old and not to my personal taste but they weren't falling apart so it was a 'want' and not a 'need' on my part.
The damp sounds like the only thing you could use to knock the price down.

If it's a 70s house, are you sure it needs re-wiring? I'd expect that if I was buying a house from the 30s or 40s but not a house built in the 70s. You might need to replace the fuse box with a modern replacement. If you need more plug sockets, you can add these without totally rewiring (within limits).

As PP said, a lot of what you're saying needs to be done is to get the house to how you want it (wooden floors, wood burner, en-suite0 and aren't things which must be done to maintain the integrity of the house, so as long as the overall price reflects that I wouldn't think there is that much bargaining opportunity - although nothing to stop you trying! Have any other similar houses sold recently - could you use the price of those to help agree on a realistic price?

Well you don't get to 'take money off' for things like not having a wood burner and your desire to put in an en-suite...

I reckon you are looking at more than £50k for all that.

The electrics can't be need a re-wire if it is rented out with a valid electrical safety certificate?

It's not the best time of year to be looking. I would leave it a couple of months and look in early March when there will be a lot more choice.

The things you list as reasons for offering a reduced price are nice-to-haves and you'll probably be told that you're having a laugh.

We've just bought our first home, which is a 1970s 3 bed. We're fully redecorating throughout (inc new doors, laminate floor throughout, new skirting, replastering ceilings, new radiators, new banisters, new plug sockets/spotlights, new fuse box) on a £10k budget. This doesn't include touching the kitchen or bathroom, which will be done next year hopefully. We are project managing it ourselves and my DP and DF are doing some of the work to reduce the cost.

We used the amount of work to bring the place up to scratch as a bargaining chip (along with our lack of chain and ability to move quickly) and ended up paying £18.5k under asking. Although the house had been rented up until recently and was safe to live in, it was pretty dire - hard wearing sensible grey carpet throughout, textured wallpaper on the ceiling, surface mounted electrics etc.

Hope this helps.

If its 70's it's likely to be riddled with asbestos too so factor in safe removal of that during any works it affects

The owner had two offers near the asking price but turned them down. The house next door sold after sitting on the market for over a year for fifty grand less than this one, and it is fully done up. The neighbours have looked at it and said it's worth over fifty grand less than the asking price . Houses are not selling well in the area either. I know a wood burner etc are not necessities, I am stating what we would like to do. The house is very cold, and needs another heat source. Rewiring may not need to be done, that's something we would have to look into.

There are other issues which would put buyers off too.

I'm not sure I understand, OP.

If the owner has honestly had 2 recent offers near the asking price, then the asking price is going to be about right. It becomes a tautology; a house is worth what people are prepared to pay, so if what people are prepared to pay is close to the asking price, then the asking price is about right! Buyers are not being 'put off' by the state of it, so your landlord will just laugh at you if someone has offered £240,000 yet you're offering £190,000 and a long list of its faults.

The house next door selling for so much less is odd, unless it is smaller or this happened some time ago??

I'm not sure I understand this either.

Firstly you need to seperate what needs to be done versus what you'd like.

Wooden floors, wood burner, ensuite, more storage, new patio etc are all things you'd like to do. They are not stuff that needs doing to make it habitable.

Secondly if they have had two offers near the asking price why would they accept your low ball because you want a wood burner or some such thing, that's so illogical.

The odds are based on the offers received this house will go for asking price. Giving a list of your wants will not convince them to sell it to uou cheap.

Okay, my question was about the cost of the renovations, not how much I should offer. Thats a separate issue. I am trying to work out how much the work will cost in order to decide how much to offer. I have a lot of experience of buying and selling, and have looked at the market for quite a while. I don't think I have been clear with my question, sorry.

Also the owners are an institution and haven't been out to the property for years - they are going on what the estate agent says.

There are other issues which would put buyers off too

But buyers aren't put off. They've had two offers. They feel confident in declining to hold out for asking price. It doesn't matter what your neighbour thinks. Two people already have tried to buy it close to asking price.

Are you possibly confusing two things, OP?

• The price the successful buyer needs to pay to secure the house. This will be greater than the price now offered. It has nothing to do with your plans for the house.

• Whether you can afford to buy this house at market price and do the renovation work you want to do straight away or not. At a guess I'd say that the kind of spec you are talking about wood floors, replastering after removing grilles, log burner, a new ensuite, a new kitchen is going to come in at something like £50-60k, more if you are in London.

Agree with whisky owl. She's put it well. Your post is confused.

You've confused what you'd like to do with the property v what needs done and would show up on a survey as needing immediate rectifying and could be used to negotiate a price down. Normally done after the offer is accepted.

So yes, the price is not ridiculous if they have had two near asking price offers.

They will not drop the price because you give them a wish list.

What you're basically saying is "I'd like to do all this to the house, could you pay for it please by dropping the ptice".

The answer will be no when better offers are about.

The company who owns the property will also know the market value. This is validated by the offers received.

So you will need to bid at asking price to secure it.

The next question is can you afford all the changes you wish to make. And in reality yes you'd be looking at between 50-75 k based on the scale of the work and the spec you go for.

Agree that it would easily take at least £50k if not double that, unless you do much of the work yourself. WRT to your offer, you’re unlikely to secure it without asking price if they have received close to asking price offers already. It looks like they have priced it well. Doer uppers can be attractive to many buyers who see the potential to make it what they want if it satisfies their other criteria of location and size. A 70’s house on my road which needed a complete update went for £70k over asking price last year 😲

i should also had that both buyers withdrew their offers

I thought your landlord turned the offers down.