Do we need an independent project manager for a big renovation project including kitchen extension?

[honeylulu]

We are buying a big 6 bed Victorian property in a conservation area. It's beautiful with lots of original features but hasn't been well looked after and needs "sympathetic updating" as the estate agent tactfully said.
I reckon a full or partial rewire, replumb, a fair bit of replastering (lime plaster), repair/replace Windows, possibly new boiler/radiators, repointing, partitioning loft, new bathrooms and kitchen plus a side extension to the kitchen to join it up to the dining room. Current kitchen is currently a bit dark and poky.

It would be hell on earth to try and live there so we are planning on completing in Jan and keeping our current house which sees aim to put on the market in spring and move into the new house in summer when hopefully the worst of the works are done, even if decorating bit isn't.

Time is fairly critical as any longer than 6 months or so and the large mortgage payments will start to eat into the renovation budget.

I'm semi clued up on construction projects as I'm a solicitor who deals with construction defect claims so I've got a reasonable idea if what things cost and what's involved BUT this is very far from ever having handled such a project myself. We both work full time, commute and have two children aged 12 and 3.

I'm already talking to architects for the extension design so we can get ahead with planning permission before we complete - might be a but fiddly because of Conservation area.

Have done loads if research and a point that keeps cropping up is (particularly if you're inexperienced and don't have lots of time to commit) getting an independent project manager to manage the build, postings etc to keep it within budget and on time. However other people say a decent builder should be able to PM.

My husband thinks maybe an independent PM is too much given my professional experience and that we will have an architect involved. But I'm finding it overwhelming and incredibly time consuming already.

Is an independent PM a good idea ... or not?

Costings not postings, sorry!

OP dh and I have recently completed a similar project to what you describe on our house in London. We managed it ourselves and went through the most stressful time in our entire lives. The project took 9 rather than 6 months, was over budget and took up a massive amount of our time. In hindsight we should have employed a project manager.

Our house is now beautifully finished but dh and I still haven’t quite gotten over the stress of the build. We are construction lawyers too.

Well with your background you are in a great position to handle it yourself if you felt you could spare some time. And a decent, experienced builder will make a massive difference. So I'd say it would be doable.

We are due to complete our extension this month. We've got a good (but still frustrating) builder but I chose to contract separately with a lot of the trades and it's been hard work trying to marry up all the different timings and ensure deliveries etc came as and when needed. I'm in the house (we're renting nearby) multiple times a day. Every decision comes through me. It has dominated my life for months and at times I've hated the house!

I'd never do it again and if I could ever be persuaded to I would save up for someone else to oversee it.

And we are running 4 months behind

I can't speak for the necessity for the PM role but you would do well to appoint a Principal Contractor, and ask them for a copy of their Construction Phase Plan.

If they don't know what a CPP is or haven't planned to prepare one, I'd question their competence to undertake the project safely. It might also assist you in keeping them on track to time, however dates in construction do whistle past with bad weather, difficulty in appointing the trades etc.

www.hse.gov.uk/construction/cdm/2015/domestic-clients.htm

Thanks all. Time is sadly what I don't have. My workload has been a bit neglected in the last couple of weeks since we won the bid (sealed bids sake le) and started planning - even preparing the bid took up so much time!
I'm certainly erring on the side of a PM so far.

Any recommendations? So far I've been impressed by CLPM (based Rickmansworth), any comments welcome ...

I’d definitely get a PM especially if you don’t have lots of free time. I managed our project and it was the most horribly stressful thing I’ve ever done. Loads of stuff went wrong, contractors didn’t do their jobs and it ran massively over on timetable.

Our main regret was not getting a PM. We had excellent architects and a main contractor who was supposed to oversee everything, but it was awful.

Does the architect offer the service of overlooking the project?

I project managed a big renovation myself (5 bed semi + loft conversion, the whole works rewire, replumb etc). I managed to get it all finished about 4 months after getting the keys but I only worked 3h a day at that time and had no children. I lived and breathed the project 24/7. No way would attempt it if having a full time job and a family.

We are just midway through renovation, demolished a single storey extension on a 1900 Victorian house that the previous owners wiped out most of original features from. We have added three bedrooms, an ensuite a new kitchen, downstairs bathroom and extended utility,
Every room needs wiring/plastering plus new drains, windows and doors (internal and external) sandblasting/repointing original brickwork and replacing/restoring decorative features externally. Oh and levellling/landscaping a huge weedy hill that was an unusable garden.

I’m on mat leave and have project managed it myself supported by the builder (who has been amazing)

We are up to roof level now but the company supplying the roof has pulled out so we now have a months delay which obviously impacts on the joiner and roofer booked in to fit it all.

I’ve found it incredibly stressful and time consuming - we started when baby was ten weeks old, I’m breastfeeding and living with temporary kitchen set up in the dining room. Only have running water in one bathroom which is upstairs and none downstairs.
We really should have moved out however being around has been immensely helpful in terms of keeping on top of things plus rent on another house would have eaten a huge chunk of our budget.
I think managing it yourself can be amazing (I’ve learned so much) but there’s times when it consumes everything and if I was at work full time I couldn’t have done it. The sheer volume of time I spend on the phone is immense. I’ve saved thousands by getting quotes and being a bit cheeky at times (where supplier 3 is cheaper I often go back to supplier 1 and 2 telling them 3’s price to see if they will beat it etc)

Had the builder not been so helpful I couldn’t have done it though. He gave me a weekly list of materials required and prompts about what I needed to source next etc.

We are using our months delay before the roof goes on to sort drains, windows/doors/cctv/underfloor heating etc so hopefully I’ll be better organised come January.

Hello! We had a big renovation done to our house (not such a big one as yours but also an old house) and had a PM. My husband and I both worked full time and had small children, so it seemed impossible to handle it ourselves. The PM came highly recommended and it was supposed to be very good - it was also very expensive. The renovation took much longer than initially expected and it went considerably over budget, though I admit that it was difficult to predict, as it happens with old houses. The result was beautiful and top quality but in hindsight, I think a good builder would have been better value for money. The advantage of the PM was the team - architect and builder were fantastic. Other than that, not worth it for us. Would not recommend it.

Thanks Happy it's interesting to hear the other side! I guess it depends on how good the PM/builder is ... and I just don't know. The ones I come across in my field of work are the ones who have stuffed up so I won't be using them. Just not sure where to find good ones.I've been adding around fir recommendations and have been recommended two architects and one PM.

The only builder recommended did our friends house and it looks fantastic, was very quick, no problems etc BUT it was all cash in hand and no formal contract which (as a lawyer) gives me the horrors!

I'd definitely recommend a PM if you're short of time and have kids. We've excelled in taking on the most ridiculous project: one Victorian wreck needing complete renovation and a double storey extension. We have to live in it because our mortgage is sky high (London), we're acting as the Project Manager and Builder for the double storey extension, DH has done most of the renovation work for the rest of the house over the past three years and we have one DD aged 2 and one aged 9 weeks. DH works full time and I'm on maternity leave.

I honestly think we're completely insane and this renovation has pretty much broken me. The only consolation is that it's the forever house, it will be amazing when we finally finish and the extension will probably cost us around £100k instead of £200k if we'd used a builder and project manager.

If you're acting as the PM you have to be completely on the ball (as everyone - builders, trades, suppliers - will make mistakes left, right and centre) , know every single detail and have lots of technical knowledge. I really, really wouldn't recommend it!