What are our rights with regards to allowing viewings on rental property? LL selling

[SmileAndNod]

We rent and the owner of our house is deciding whether to sell *though from what we've been told it's pretty certain. Or put in an extra bedroom / extension. He's not too sure. Our tenancy ends in Feb, so we will be given notice in December ( on Xmas eve).

So far the letting agent has arranged with us two dates to come and do a valuation / take photos and measure up for floor plans. Both times they have failed to turn up. The second time (Friday) DH waited in all day and not even a phone call to say they weren't coming

We don't know what to do . We're not happy with them just turning up as they please without one of us being here. We have a dog who won't know these people, will become distressed at strangers being in his house. He has a heart condition and I'm worried what might happen.

According to the letting agent they only have to give us 24 hours notice and they can let themselves in as they choose. Whether we're here or not. I think it's in the tenancy agreement as well. Do we have to accept this? Is there anything legally we can say whereby we can refuse? I ask because we were due to look at another rental property but were told we'd have to wait till x date until the current tenant moved out. In any event we didn't get to see it as they had 15 viewings the first day and so they had their pick of tenants.

I'm wondering why our letting agents aren't so reasonable. Or indeed can be bothered. We had to chase THEM to find out about the decision to sell! They don't return calls.Then they don't even turn up at arranged times. 2 days DH has taken off work.

We're feeling very unsettled by it all. We have 3 kids and will be homeless after Christmas (perils of renting I know) but all of this is piling on the stress

I am no expert at all, but from what I have ever read on it, I thought the law was more on the tenants' side in this situation. That's why I am really surprised at what Shelter told you. Look on this blog for property investors, they seem to think that legally tenant has the upper hand in this situation (even though that obviously a pain from a landlord's point of view):

www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/my-tenant-wont-allow-me-into-the-property-for-viewings/

I suppose it all depends on how dirty your agency wants to fight. But if viewings so early on would even contradict their own contract ..... I wouldn't roll over for them. If you were to offer them, after Christmas, a couple of viewing slots a week say, at a time that suits you, then wouldn't that prove that you are acting reasonably? Sorry, not read the whole thread. Or do you not want any viewings at all?

What Shelter have told you simply isn’t true.
Go to the DIY store and change the lock barrel. They will only find out if they try to illegally access your home.

All this “they can evict” - they’re planning to do so anyway! And even if it was possible to do so during your fixed term (which is extremely difficult to do) by the time notice is given (which will be for the end of the fixed term) and it goes to court etc you will be way past Feb.

Letting agent here (sorry!) I'm very surprised by what shelter have said.
Firstly the agent can give 24 hrs notice but if you refuse then the absolutely cannot let them selves in. If they wrote and said if we don't hear from you we will let ourselves in then they would be covered but if you said actually no you can't then they would not allowed to.
Secondly regarding viewings, you are right they can only do them in the last two months of the contract. You can refuse them altogether, however this is frustrating for the landlord and could lead to bad feeling. It's not a reason to withhold your deposit ( I've never heard of this being a reason) but to get a good reference etc could you offer one morning a week say between 9-12 on a Wednesday. That way they can do viewings and you know that's the only time you'll be disturbed.

Forgot to add if you change the lock barrel make sure you change it back when leaving.

I am a landlord. I would tell the owner the agents are making appointments with you and not showing up. I would be livid if they treated my tenants like that. I would want to know and either sack them or give them a right earful.

Shelter person is talking rubbish.

Any such deposit claim would be laughed out. Any trouble caused is harassment which has big penalties.

Hello SmileAndNod,

Shelter here! Sorry to hear about your situation, it must be very stressful for you. We've spoken to our expert housing advisers and they have this advice:

'If your landlord/agent wants access for valuations or to show prospective buyers around your home, your first step would be to check what your tenancy agreement says about this. It may state that viewings are allowed, provided you're given a certain amount of notice (for example, 24 hours). In this case, if you object, it may be seen as a breach of your tenancy. However, if your agreement doesn't mention viewings, your landlord must ask your permission first, and you can say no.

If your contract states that viewings or access will only be required at certain times (for example in the last 2 months of the tenancy) then the landlord/agent should keep to those terms.

Even if your contract states you need to allow access for viewings or valuations, your landlord’s right to access your home should be balanced with your right to live there in peace. Hopefully a landlord should appreciate that it’s not always convenient to have people turning up at your home. You could try suggesting certain times and dates when these visits would be more manageable for you.'

If you'd like to speak to an adviser for more detail we'd suggest you use our web chat feature as our helpline can get exceptionally busy, so it best used for emergencies. Here's how to get in touch: england.shelter.org.uk/get_help

I hope that helps and provides some clarity,
Shelter

Well they got the email and contacted the owner who immediately asked that they serve our notice. So we now have that (tofollow by letter) and so need to start planning our move out.

We have a feeling from the tone of the email tjhat they are going to get very picky over stuff and also ask to come in for viewings as often as possible. I may be back in the New Year but thank you for your heklp and advice.

I think you said you have a fixed term. That can't be changed by a section 21. A section 8 (tenancy breach) will probably be laughed out of court.

And now you have nothing to lose by refusing viewings! Stupid landlord.

@SmileAndNod you can't be served notice when you're on a fixed term contract, unless they are evicting on a section 8 (breach of tenancy) in which case they would have to take you to court. So basically they can't make you leave before your contract expires. Please get back in touch with Shelter and show them the letter you have been sent, they will help you challenge it.

Cross post specialsubject

Sorry i wasnt clear - the owner has requested that we are given our notice to vacate at the end of our contract in Feb. So hopefully we're not being taken to court!

Now need to sort out packing, cleaning, fumigation (not that the dog has EVER had anything horrible) and somewhere to go!

OK, should be a section 21 with all the associated docs to make it valid. He can give more than two months notice.

And you still have no incentive to allow viewings...

I always strongly suggest going to Martin lewis' website forum and posting for advice in the houses and renting sub section. You will be told in clear terms what you can legally refuse and why and it will give you the confidence to know you're right.

Great. You can now refuse all viewings even in the final two months without fear of consequence. What’s he going to do? Evict you? Oh he already is.

I will soon be in this position, although I'm the one giving notice as we are buying.
I would not be comfortable will the agent showing people round when I'm not there, and I work full time so there won't be many times that they will be able to do it.
It really pisses me off that there isn't some CLEAR guidance that says we can say no to the landlord. This is your home!
Will you need a reference? Because that's the bit that would worry me I think.

We can't refuse to show them round within 2 months as that's in our contract. And I think (after how arsey they're being) that they'll hold us to it. But as we both work full time have children and a dog with a heart condition I don't want them there without us.

I'm going to suggest some suitable times but I can see that they'll be bothering us every day or so and making our life hell.

Also despite having perfect inspections for 2 years I think we'll have problems getting our deposit back.

Deposit with holding needs evidence. How's the check in inventory?

Both the landlord and the agent are acting in an absolute ridiculous manner here. It is in their interest to have you on board so that you allow viewings and that you make it nice and tidy for them.

If they piss you off by not showing up to appointments, forcing viewings on you and by serving you notice, you're not going to be very accommodating, are you?

They should know that unless they give you a good reference, you might find it difficult finding somewhere else to live and it might end up a lengthy court battle where you refuse to leave.

Why do you think you won't get the deposit back?

(I'm in a similar position to you. House went on the market, lots of estate agents around for valuation and photos. Wanting viewings at inconvenient times. In the end it got sold to another landlord so we can stay luckily enough.)

There was an inventory. We also took loads of pictures of things that were already scuffed etc. Obviously the carpet isn't as good after 2 years but there are no stains and we've had it professionally cleaned during our time here. Weve not damaged anything or redecorated. We have painted the fence (in the same colour) and waterproofed it. Weve been (I think) good tenants. I'm not sure what is allowed for in wear and tear

tsunami so glad you've had luck and you will be having a new LL. I don't feel very accommodating to them. They've lost our good will. Can't wait until they ask for feedback as to how the experience has been

With that inventory you will be fine. General guidance for English landlords is that carpets are worthless after eight years, decorating after five, both from new.

Any damage deductions are pro rated both for the age of the item and the area damaged. By the time that is done, even a bonfire in the middle of the carpet gets the landlord about £50 or less. Normal living means no deductions.

Well just had our noticed served. Merry Christmas to us

Need to stop worrying about it over the holidays. No doubt we'll have a trail of people through the house soon.

They can't come in without permission though can they even with 24 hours notice?Also are they allowed to show our stuff on the photos, given that we were told photos were for "floor plans" and we never gave consent for our things to be photographed in that way?

It's been handled so badly. I would love to complain but I don't know who to and I have to wait until we leave DH says!

So now need a plan b and to start packing up 😐

as repeatedly mentioned, if a landlord wants to enforce access for non-emergency purposes they can - by getting a court order for access. I can't remember if you are leaving at the end of the sec 21 or need to wait for bailiffs - but either way it doesn't make sense to get a court order.

This may be affected by what the tenancy agreement says but again it can only be enforced by court order. This is slow, expensive and pointless with tenants who are leaving anyway.

so WRITE to the landlord, copy the agent, getting proof of posting (don't use recorded delivery), stating your position on viewings and photographs.

none of this has any relevance to your deposit. The place is being sold, it can't be sold until you have gone. If the landlord has any sense they just wait two months until it is empty.

Not entirely sure our LL is as sensible as you specialsubject . From our dealings via the agent they are petty. And why they need to use photos with stuff in them when they had lovely empty photos from before we moved in God only knows!