moving a radiator?

[PickleFish]

I have a really deep (kind of double depth) radiator in the sitting room of a small new build flat. It hardly came on last year, and it just takes up room when otherwise things could be pushed flat against the wall, etc. (which matters in such a small space!). So I was thinking that maybe I could change it to a vertical radiator, at the end of the wall by the window.

But, the pipes that supply the current radiator are in the walls, not the floor. There seems to be a connection point of some sort right in the middle of the wall (hidden by the radiator), and then pieces of flexible tubing that connects to either end of the radiator (tubing also hidden by the radiator). If the radiator was moved to the end of the wall, that connection and the tubing would then be visible (well, hidden behind the sofa, but still on the outside of the wall).

How hard would it be to move that connection to the end of the wall and install the new radiator there? What would happen to the old connection - can it be removed so that the wall is then flat? I am not planning to get the room painted for a few years, but it could be sort of patched up a bit (and then hidden behind the sofa) until I do?

would a plumber be the person to do all of this? (Including making good the wall?) Or do I need a gas person to deal with the pipes?
It's a new build flat, and the boiler is not in the flat - it's a communal boiler system, so there is just hot water that comes to each flat and is metered individually that way. Would all plumbers be able to deal with this sort of system?

I haven't been here a full winter yet, but I know that last year, the sitting room radiator didn't come on all that often. I've heard that vertical radiators aren't as good at heating a room, but I thought that since it didn't seem to need loads of heating, maybe it would be enough. Not sure about having it by the window though. Would a plumber also be able to advise on whether it would be enough to heat the room well?

thanks for any advice.

I've not done much DIY before as I've only just moved into a flat for the first time, so it's all new to me, and hoping that someone has done something similar before!

Yes, a plumber should be your first port of call. We swapped a radiator for a tall one and the plumber ran the pipes along the skirting board. The plumber can also advise on size of radiator for size of room (but you can google that too)

thanks. Glad to know it's not too hard to have done.

I'm really trying to avoid having pipes running along the wall or skirting board if I can, as the rest of the flat is so new, and it just makes it look like an older property where heating was an afterthought! So I was hoping there might be a way to just get the new connection in the right place.

But I've not been here long either, and am only trying to do things that will be relatively easy to change, as I can't afford any big renovations or redecorating or anything. It seems like a simple thing that would give me more space, but not sure it's quite as simple as I think.

I'm also not sure how this whole communal heating thing works. There's a giant boiler room in a building down the street that supplies all the flats. I don't know whether the plumber needs to know about that sort of system, or how to find one who does!

How large is the distance between current connector and desired connection?

Bear in mind that chasing in metres of pipework or cable is an extremely messy and disruptive job. I guess a plumber would have to cut a channel in your plaster, and then you'd need a plaster and/or decorator to sort out the wall. If the distance is metres and metres it could end up being a really expensive radiator!

Since you're only there short term, is it worth it?

On another note: if the rad is cold, it might be worth getting a heating engineer out to check whether your system is properly balanced.

No I am here long term, which is why I want it to look really nice. I just can't afford to do very much at one time, so it will be a while before I'd be able to get a decorator in - the whole room would need repainting at some point, as it only has thin paint on at the moment as that's what they put on new plaster. But I can't afford that yet and there are things like radiators that would make more of a difference to quality of life, if you see what I mean. Still, I'd rather not huge holes on the wall if I can avoid it, though they would be hidden partly behind the sofa, as one of the reasons for this is to push the sofa flat against the wall and get back those vital 6-8" in the room! So we aren't talking metres for sure, as it's all quite small.

The current connector is about 1.5 metres away from where the vertical radiator would be. So a pipe externally isn't impossible, just wouldn't look all that nice, when the rest of the place is clear and modern.

Yes I hadn't considered about whether he system is balanced, either. It does come in, just now that often - but then the other two aren't on all that much either. It's a very over insulated sweltering little place in the summer. It does feel chilly on colder days, despite what the thermostat says, specially when it's windy - maybe the glass walls add to that, but you'd have thought the insulation would have made it warmer in winter too. Not sure it seems to work like that! Not sure who would check that sort of thing. It's part of this communal system, but the bit in the flat presumably works like a normal central heating system, and normal radiators. Just the boiler is elsewhere.

(Sorry, that should say 'it does come ON, just not that often')

Sorry, I misread your post somehow and thought you were only there for a short while!

I think the first thing is to make sure you're comfortable in cold weather. I don't know how these communal boiling systems work, so I'm not sure whether the problem with cold radiators would be in your flat or at the boiler. Bat signal for @PigletJohn who is full of wisdom about these things. But, in case it's relevant, I had problems in my house where the bottom floor would be boiling and the top freezing, and a heating engineer came out and did some jiggerypokery to "rebalance" the system.

If a modern radiator heats properly, it should really belt out heat. In which case, you may be able to push your sofa back a few feet. I have a very solid low wooden unit right in front of one of my radiators and while it's not ideal, I don't think it cuts out that much heat because most of the heated air seems to rise up still and circulate by convection.

In terms of painting - this is something you can do yourself if you have a bit of time. It's not very difficult at all! It sounds like they haven't finished the number of coats properly - usually over bare plaster, you do a couple of mist coats, and then enough further coats that you get a nice matt finish. It sounds as though they've cut corners and left plaster grinning through - but you should be able to remedy this by finishing it yourself. Painting in a new build is usually as straightforward as sugarsoaping down and rollering a coat or two on. If the walls you have are light, you might want to stick to a lighter tone until you get the hang - cutting in (painting the edges of walls, ceilings) is a knack, and off-white hides a multitude of sins.

it's off white, so that helps! I think they put a thinned down version of paint on while the plaster is drying, and now that it is supposedly dried, we are able to repaint if we want. Apparently if you put normal paint on new plaster it doesn't soak in right and bubbles, or something. Wouldn't surprise me if they cut corners, too - they've done that in lots of other ways! It means that the slightly knock or drip of water seems to wash it off, though. But i've just managed to move most of the furniture in, so not sure I can afford the time and expense of getting it done. Doing it myself is a possibility, but with arm and shoulder injuries, it might be quite hard, especially not having done it before - and yet in some ways it appeals to me, as I'm a perfectionist and have never seen painters in my rented houses that do a very careful job. Though not sure I would be able to either, on a first attempt! I would also have to wait until a long holiday, to have time and space to paint/have it painted, as my work is at home and it needs to be presentable. So at any rate, trying to keep it as neat as I can, make it look OKish, and hide it behind furniture, is my plan A. But I don't know if a plumber would do that, or if not, who would, given that I can't get the whole thing redecorated at the moment.

There's no "few feet" to move anything around here - it's a long narrow room, a sort of open plan sitting room with the kitchen at the end. One wall has bookcases and also the TV on one of the shelves, and then the other, facing, wall has the radiator and mini sofa. There's about 4 feet between the edge of the sofa and the shelves, and it's just a little close, somehow, especially with the TV. The end of the room is all glass doors and some other bits in front, and getting to that around the sofa is tight.

So the idea was to remove the deep radiator from behind the sofa, so that the sofa could be pushed right up against the wall, and that would give an extra 8 inches or so space in the room, which does make a difference! And then the vertical radiator could go in the corner next to the door/window. So it's not moving it because the heat is a problem for the furniture, but more just to get the extra space! Also because the sofa has quite a low back, and if it was up against the wall, it would be more comfortable as you could put cushions there and lean slightly against the wall.

I think the radiator doesn't seem to come on very often as the overall temp is what the thermostat says it should be, though the thermostat is just outside the sitting room door which I'm sure makes a difference. But even when it's all saying 20 degrees, sometimes I do find I'm cold, whereas other times when it says that, it's plenty warm enough. So it's more likely to do with wind, time of day, humidity, what I'm doing etc, I guess. I work from home so am not moving around that much in the day.

thanks for all of this, very useful to discuss ideas, as it's all new to me!

Yes, you put on a couple of "mist coats" over bare plaster (watered down paint) and then you do proper coats over. It looks awful until the proper coats are done. I guess maybe ask your doctors whether you can do the painting with your specific injuries - for some, it might not be a good idea, for others it might be helpful if done slowly over time.

I see the spatial issue much more clearly now - it sounds very tight. You can get a free, no obligation quote from a local plumber, which should give you an idea of the cost without tying you into anything.

ah I guess they didn't do the proper coats yet as they were selling the flat first. typical! There are various other projects that still need doing - need to add curtain battens, for example, and a couple of other things, so would probably want to wait til all that's done first before painting/getting it painted. But that might be a year or two before I get round to all the jobs! Have to ration out the money. The radiator I thought would be an early one as it would make a difference to space.

Might try getting a couple of quotes then, and see what they say. It's sometimes hard to get people to do relatively small jobs, but hopefully this isn't too small for that (and yet small enough to be affordable...!).