Neighbour thinks our drain is leaking

[MrsMozart]

At least I think that's what they think...

Edwardian houses. No shared brickwork, but they're very close to each other (think inch or so).

We did have a flooded drain a couple of times, but gave it a good clearing and no issues since then.

Had Dyno Rod out a few months ago and he said it's not blocked and wouldn't be causing an issue.

I've taken the shower out - it was the only water thing that side.

They've just been round at ten o'clock at night to tell me it's happened again. Admittedly I wasn't at my brightest or most welcoming having been in bed falling asleep. I'm not sure what they expect me to do at this time of night. I've told them what the DR chap said.

I've spent the last hour booking DR again and doing unsuccessful Google searches, so thought I'd ask the wise Mnetters - has anyone had the same situation, where a pipe isn't blocked, maintains the same level of water, but the neighbours say it's going into their house and running down the wall/going up the wall (this bit is not clear!) of their ground floor bathroom?

We've no sign of water or smell of damp our side.

I'm going to look again in the morning, including emptying a full bath in case there's some bizarreness going on. DR is due Tuesday morning.

Can't think if I've missed any vital bit of info out... The washing machine empties into another drain the far side of the house from theirs. The sewage soil pipe is also away from theirs.

Ah! One last bit of info - both floors of the relevant rooms are solid. They probably have tiles on cobbles or similar. I wonder if next door's damp proof has failed. Both houses have steep back gardens, but again we've never had a problem with any run-off.

If there is something going on then we of course want to know about it and get it fixed, but I just can't figure out what!

I'm not sure I understand what's happening to your neighbours. Have they had their own plumbing checked? Had you used anything yesterday that could have flooded your neighbour?

What Olivia said - have they had their drains and pipework checked? Did DR put a camera down yours when they were out? It's the only way to check if their is a fracture really, and also what other pipework from yours or your neighbours houses, go into it. Although it's odd that they get sudden flooding (is that what is happening?) when you don't have anything draining into it.

Thank you folks.

Every now and then they say they're getting water appearing where the floor/wall join. We're wondering if it's when the bath is emptied, though if I watch the drain at the time the water rises a bit as one would expect but doesn't overflow. There's no complaint from next door when he shower was run or the dishwasher, all of which drain into the same drain.

They get some water/damp appearing when there's heavy rain, so not possible to say what damage is caused by ours, if any as they've not had their own pipes, drains or damp proof checked.

We have Dyno Rod coming again tomorrow with a camera. They said last time that it wasn't needed.

I'm wondering if theres a tiny gap which the bath water causes to widen. Can't think what else what cause such an intermission issue. Needs fixing so hope DR has some suggestions.

you say "and running down the wall/going up the wall (this bit is not clear!) of their ground floor bathroom?"

hmmmmm.

water leaking in a bathroom, eh?

a bathroom equipped with pipes and drains.

Where would I first suspect the fault to lie?

are there any inspection covers around your house, or theirs, that have not been buried or concreted over?

are there drainpipes at the back of the house that presumably make their way to the front to join the sewer under the road?

do you know their route?

please show them all on your diagram

Aye re bathroom and pipes... Seems easier to blame us. Though if the fault is this side then it is and we'll get it fixed.

They now say it's where the floor joins the wall, and is now appearing in three places along the same floor/wall.

Having been in the house and seeing the other 'non-affected' walls, I can see they have rising damp, so have suggested again that they have their damp course checked. It might be two things going on, i.e. a leak from us and a bobbered damp course.

If I knew how to get pictures on here I'd attempt a diagram...

Sorry, missed answering some questions:

No idea about manhole covers etc. Nothing visible. All houses in this short row are the same pipewise. Our sewage and pipes go to the other side of the house from these neighbours;

Two downpipes at the back of the house. Neither next to soggy-neighbours. Pipes run other way and join mains under side alley (between us and non-soggy-neighbours).

Is the ground level outside of the houses higher than it should be?

I doubt they have a failed damp proof course or rising damp - they haven't fixed whatever caused the problem in the first place. Now, because they paid for a dpc, they are looking for something else to blame. Get a report from a drain company that shows your drains are clean if you must and advise them they should get a general builder to look round their house and find the actual problem.

Ground level - I don't think it's higher than should be. Looks right compared to back doorstep, etc. Soggy-neighbour says our patio area at back of house is higher than theirs, but all around is higher (big hill behind us both).

Apparently the chap did his own DPC. No idea if that's an issue or not as no idea how hard / techy, I've always had a bod in to do it. Hopefully drain camera bod will be here tomorrow. If there is an issue our end I want to know and fix, otherwise the house might end up sinking... If it's not our side then for sure they need someone in to sort it. They keep asking me who they should get. I don't know for sure and don't want to suggest the wrong one.

I'll update when DR camera bod has been. It should be interesting to see what's happening down there!

When some neighbours had similar prolems some of ears ago, there was a dye test done to check where the water/sewage was suppposedly appearing in the garden. Not sure if this would work the same being inside the property though.

Disclaimer, the neighbour who told me about this dye test was, umm eccentric and possibly not telling the truth.

Frog when my grandad has a pressure issue the water board told us to put coffee in the cistern so we could tell if it was coming from there or not. Your neighbour may be right with a dye test

I've read about the dye test. I'm assuming it's something they'd do to be certain.

Oddly soggy-neighbours said there were bubbles in it last night, but we'd not had bubbles; then they said it was Friday night, but no bubbles then either. The issue doesn't appear to be consistent, i.e. every bath time.

it's very common for a pipe (often the water supply pipe) or drain to be leaking in an old house.

If the pipe is buried in a concrete floor, or the broken drain is in the ground, it's not visible but it will cause persistent damp. The cure is of course not to potter about with chemicals or plaster, but to repair the pipe.

People who have a water meter can detect a leaking supply pipe because there is an indicator bubble in the glass window, and it moves all the time water is passing through, even if the dials are not visibly moving.

Ah. That's interesting, thank you. We know where our water pipe is (visible all the way up from the connection at front of house in what was the cellar), I wonder where theirs is.

If it's not our drain then I'll suggest they have their pipes, etc., checked.

United Utilities use dye as well, to determine where a leak may be coming from.
Have these neighbours had DynoRod out to look at their property before expecting you do all these investigations.
It must be costing a fortune.

It's a whole new world for sure.

Nope. Nada. They say they don't know who to ask. I've made suggestions, without being too direct as I don't want the blame if it's the wrong one. We'll do the camera tomorrow and if that shows an issue we'll fix it; if it doesn't then that's us done on the investigation work.

NDN's being a bit presumptuous saying their problem is your fault.

Is camera bod going next door as well, I'd think that was a better way of tackling it, you both pay half his fee for inspecting both lots of water outlet/drains then see where he says any fault lies, if he can see one.

He should be able to do you a quick sketch as well, showing both of you where your pipework is, always handy to know.

Tell NDN our water company do an insurance cover which is £x per year (mine's under £100) and if any damaged pipes are found between your house and the start of the water company's liability - usually the front path or road - the water company will inspect and do any necessary works to repair any damage.
If they are a bit clueless, that sort of cover may be a good deal for them.

A good plan and if they had any money I'd go for it. As it is I think I'll end up paying the camera work.

Given the ages and styles of the houses, if it were non-soggy-neighbour side I'd say there'd be a chance of shared drain etc, but unless the camera shows a totally unexpected veer right when we're expecting left, then there's nothing to be shared.

I'm almost at the 'show there's an issue this end' stage, then I can get it fixed and she'll bob off. Don't get me wrong, they're fine on the rest of the being a neighbour front, it's just this bloody water thing, so of that can be made to go away we can just crack on. There's enough shit in life without this being A Thing.

The dye test is true. We had it done last week arranged by the water company to test every house in the area due to sewage leaking into the waterways.They put some blue powder down the sink, run water, have the toilets flushed and watch to see what comes out via the inspection cover.Then they checked the outside pipes. The dye can be bought at a builders merchant.

There might have a collapsed drain due to the age of the building, the movement of the ground/settlement or subsidence making the drain crack. If your drains are checked and OK then they need to check theirs. Ask them if they have any cracks in their walls.

Old drain pipes might be cast iron if they have not been updated, so may be leaking underground. One more thing to consider is that Victorian/Edwardian houses often had foundations built on the earth, no concrete or bricks which would cause damp and movement.

Water company should have a drain map apparently, so could find out where the mains drains are without too many searches.

I would suggest that they check the damp course, any downpipes, gutters that might overflow or are missing the lining/have gaps or cracks as that can drip onto the bottom of the wall, then check drain map, get someone to inspect the drains on their side and the water table, underground watercourses. Sometimes water naturally finds its way under a property. If no joy then they need a surveyor.

Sorry for typos.

All good points, thank you. I've suggested 'till I'm blue and n the face that they get the DPC checekd as it's obviously failed (there's damp on the far wall), but no joy.

DR coming tomorrow with the camera and a something else. It's been interesting booking them in. All lovely people, just not the most joined up of systems. Ah well. Tomorrow should be the day of answers!

I'll report back.

So they expect you to pay a fortune to prove its not you but won't actually do anything themselves ? I think I'd be sending them a copy of the bill if it's found not to be your problem,

Aye. They're convinced and I have so much going on that this is currently the least (on all counts) of my worries, so organise and pay it I will. The chances of me getting it back are boball as I doubt very much that they have it.

Who knows, it may well be us and their witterings will have averted the disaster of the backend of my house sinking into a mire.

At the moment I'm having to try and look on the bright side of everything or I'd be climbing into the aforementioned mire and closing the door after me. Isn't life a hoot.