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Party Wall Agreement- does it need to be signed?

11 replies

KBM80 · 27/08/2017 21:51

I'm finding the Party Wall process somewhat confusing so would appreciate any advice on what to do next in our situation.

We're planning a small kitchen extension- knocking out a wall between our kitchen and adjacent room/ conservatory and squaring the space off. It comes under PW because we're digging a foundation for a beam, and hoping to extend the Party Wall up above the height of the existing conservatory and out (about 1.2m).

I spoke to the neighbour a few times about the work (nice lady- but over 80 so a little forgetful and being "looked out for by her kids" which isn't super helpful)- anyway she was ok with it all. I submitted planning- no issues and it was approved. I gave her the Party Wall notice to which her son told her to say (on repeat) she only wanted a condition survey done and then she'd be fine. I paid £500 for this- it came through last week- and when I asked her to sign off the PW agreement she said she didn't need to "as we weren't in dispute"; "just go ahead and build"; "live for the day" and other such useful things- but was adamant she didn't need to sign the form. I spoke to her son to check they were happy now they had the PW agreement- he said yes- so I asked him if he would sign the form. He refused too "as it wasn't necessary"- and when I said the guidance suggests it does need to be written confirmation (we've only had verbal to date) he said he wouldn't continue the conversation any longer and shut the door!

So what I'm hoping is someone utterly helpful can offer me some advice on what next! What I don't know is a) does a PWA have to be in writing or are they correct and we're all okay to proceed; b) what if we start the work and they change their minds; c) what if we complete the work having extended the wall astride the boundary as per the planning application and they change their minds- might we have to knock it down and move the wall back 10cm?; d) if that is too risky and we just extend along the boundary (making the bit of the Party Wall that is between our fonder stories look rather out of place) do we need to amend our planning application; e) if all of the above is not positive- is the only option to get "in dispute", appoint a surveyor (likely 2 surveyors as they won't accept we are in dispute so won't agree in writing to an agreed surveyor), and have to pay for this and another condition survey (I phoned the one we used- the most expensive quote but the only one the neighbour would accept as it was her recommendation- and they said if they started the 'award' procedure, they'd need to do another identical survey as the first one wouldn't be eligible- that has to be nonsense, surely- not that I seem to have any negotiating position).

As I said- it seems complicated! If anyone has any ideas on how we get through this- ideally without spending £3,000 on two surveyors and another condition survey- please, please let us know. I tried the RICS "free 30min" session but not one of the surveyors have returned my calls- I have no ideas left!! Thanks so much.

OP posts:
Manclife · 27/08/2017 22:04

No it doesn't need signing but would protect you in the future should there be issues. I would suggest sending them a letter (registered post) outlining what has been discussed, the fact they agreed and attach a copy of the survey. Also add that if there is anything incorrect in the letter to contact you ASAP to discuss the matter. Not 100% bomb proof but as good as it gets if it's unsigned.

KBM80 · 28/08/2017 09:35

Ok, that's an interesting idea- certainly can do that. And when they ignore it (hopefully under the impression it's all fine- hopefully not because they're planning on disputing it once we've finished the work) would you think we are okay to build astride the boundary as per planning and our chats or build up to the boundary (as presumably that would have less legal recourse than if we'd crossed the boundary, if they were playing silly blighters with us)? What is the recourse for not complying with the PWA out of interest? Everything I've found refers to not serving the notice and doesn't seem to worry about not proving you have an agreement.

OP posts:
ItBroke · 28/08/2017 09:48

I would suggest sending them a letter (registered post) outlining what has been discussed, the fact they agreed and attach a copy of the survey

I would do this but would hand deliver it (but take photos etc future proof if needed). I would also make sure the letter is friendly and neighbourly. If you start sending registered letter it might antagonize them IYSWIM

Manclife · 28/08/2017 10:43

The only reason I said registered is you've written proof from 3rd party it was sent.

OceanWaving · 28/08/2017 10:49

I would get proper advice. It does need to be signed, and if not signed then you are in disagreement and can go ahead if you have payed for a surveyor and they say it's fine in neighbours behalf and it requires sending more letters at certain weeks. You'll still more than likely be able to build it just covers you legally.
www.mrpartywall.co.uk/ Gives some good initial free advice. I think he's on the forum somewhere, I had a problem that I posted about and i had some great free inital advice and would use them if we went to dispute stage.

OceanWaving · 28/08/2017 10:50

Found the name in the message, it was @Mrpartywall01 on here

ItBroke · 28/08/2017 10:57

Mansclif.
Sorry I wasn't meaning to criticise your advice. 😊 I understand that sending it by registered mail is the correct thing to do usually. I just thought that perhaps in this case it might be better to go for a softly softly freindly approach. IYSWIM. Dated photos of the delivery obviously wouldn't be as good as reg delivery but might help.

Manclife · 28/08/2017 11:41

No offence taken. I should've covered why in my post. Your quite right my approach may not come across as neighbourly.

KBM80 · 28/08/2017 15:22

Thanks for the replies everyone- this is not a common scenario then I see! What a headache.

I'll phone a few PW surveyors tomorrow then and see if any will give me some advice about how best to close this off. MrPartyWall definitely worth a call too. I think I prefer the registered letter idea- friendly friendly rather passed when they shut the door on us! The priority is simply now to make sure we've a legal build.

OP posts:
Note3 · 28/08/2017 22:09

Following on from what others have written you could video yourself showing the letter to the camera to.captire it's contents, popping it in an addressed envelope them walking next door and posting it through their letterbox. Voila, proof you posted what you state you have and it doesn't risk them refusing a registered mail letter (which some peeps do when not expecting anything)

mrpartywall01 · 29/08/2017 00:06

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