HELP - I've had enough!

[user1497207858]

I am in the process of purchasing a house but it is not going smoothly.

We have found out an area of the property has been built without planning permission and we have been advised to take out indemnity insurance and that the seller should pay for this. We have asked and they have said no.

The worst part about this is that we have been super flexible throughout the whole process without the seller giving anything back. We were advised to take £12,000 off the asking price through two surveys that we had, but decided not to. We have given the seller extra time to find somewhere to rent. We had to wait 5 weeks for the seller to instruct her solicitor. We are now dealing with her bullish solicitor and estate agent who are obviously sticking to her side.

It's extremely frustrating as we haven't asked for one thing until now. We have made it clear we are not buying a 'problem house' then I got some sarcastic reply from the estate agent saying, you are not really that stupid to pull out over a couple of hundred pounds.

Our solicitor was even asking a number of other questions about the property but agreed to drop them just for this insurance to be paid. But still no budge.

Am I overreacting?

What should I do? I am so tempted to walk away. It's not about the money it's about the principal and about how nice we are been but not been given anything back when we ask. Help!

Why did you give them 12k extra? Was it really out of niceness (wow, I have never gifted anyone such a huge sum!) Or was it to secure that they'd accept your bid over other bids (not niceness, just a business decision)

Unless this is your dream house, I would walk away. I think you have been flexible towards the vendor and they haven't reciprocated.

If you still want the house, even with that issue...Give them a deadline to have it arranged, such as Friday by noon... if not done pull out. An enforced deadline will hopefully kick them up the ass!

How much is the indemnity? Could you ask to split the cost with them?

This is absolutely something the vendor should pay for. Why should you shoulder that risk or cost? Alternative purchasers would make the same request. They're chancing their arm.

You should have asked for the 12k

Doje - we haven't had a quote yet but told it will be about £500. A split has been discussed but I feel it's time the seller gives something back as we have done everything for them so far

See this link - the sellers should be rectifying this problem

www.gardandco.com/what-we-do/conveyancing/planning-permission/

What's your position? Are you in rented? Could you move into rented?

This is a business transaction you want to buy more than they want to sell so don't cut your nose off for £500.

Pull out. Your request is very reasonable and if they won't even consider it then either they are happy to lose you, or they are not taking selling seriously. Either way you don't want to be buying from them as they may withdraw at any moment.

If you really really want this house, and the planning consent issue is something very minor, then you could just pay up. But I'd still be wary given their history.

House buying is really difficult - it should be an entirely rational process but we're buying a home so our judgement gets clouded by emotion. Imagine it was a car you were buying, or a new fridge. Would you put up with this kind of nonsense from a seller for one of those? Of course not. There are other houses out there. At least get back into the market and start looking.

We are in rented on a rolling contract so we could be flexible.

I wouldn't say this is our dream house but there are no other houses around for this price at the moment and I can see so much potential in it that at the moment this is the house we want. But I need to start seeing the vendor seem abit more helpful/keen

When I was buying we fell out over a kitchen cupboard of all things. It was an expensive bespoke one and made the kitchen, and they were taking it with them. I argued it was part of the fittings and it had to stay. I was so het up I was going to pull out. As yes, it was the principle.

Then a friend said to me, " do you want the house? Are you really wishing to lose it over a cupboard? " which made me sit down and think. And the answer was no, I'm not willing to loose it over a cupboard. So I said fine and let it drop.

And that's what I'd say to you. Do you want the house and are you willing to lose it over 250- 500 quid?

I think we all get so wound up when buying or selling, sometimes we don't see the bigger picture.

I agree for sure and sorry I did have to laugh a little for the cupboard, I'd probably be the same :)

I am a type of person that always wants to help others and never asks for something back. This time I have asked for something and I am being told no. I suppose it confuses me because I would do anything to help others and find it very selfish when other people don't want to help. I suppose I take it personally and dig my heels in.

I am going to have a long think about what to do.

Yes, it's so easy to get embroiled in something that's pettty. In a few months when you're in you won't be thinking of the insurance. It will be irrelevant to you and more just a story you tell about the purchase.

What made my cupboard issue worse was the very lovely estate against said " yes but they are leaving rhe fitted carpets" . I saw red and swore many times. At which point he said " I really wish I hadn't said that"

Although.... the first house we were going to buy we were very relaxed about and liked etc etc put in a good offer (closed bid) and won. In the process there was an access problem to house which our surveyor said no problem they need to take out the indemnity for 250 quid. Long story short they said not necessary as they hadn't had it, we said needed, they said if you don't pay it we'll take some fitting we were going to leave and then we pulled out. And bought another house three months later which was actually much more suited to us and I'm really glad we got.instead.

Seriously this is a problem house. Walk away now. Not only have two surveys thrown up £12000 of issues (and I would have walked away at this point if there was no compromise) but there is the HUGE problem of lack of planning permission. I cannot stress how much you will regret buying this house as this will become your problem when you come to sell it further down the line.I am surprised your solicitor has not advised you of all this.

This happened when we came to sell my parents' house. The person who sold the house to them had had some building work done and not got it signed off. For some reason Dad had not had a proper survey done which would have thrown this up. So when Dad died and we came to to sell the house, the problem became ours.

Because we did not have the necessary paperwork, 3 sales fell through. Eventually we had to get the council in and they advised what we needed to do to get a retrospective certificate. The council insisted on extra work being done, which caused a great deal of upheaval, cost a vast amount of money and took ages to complete. It took over our lives and drove us nuts. It did not help that the incredibly irritating little jobsworth from the council kept adding extra things in every time he came out to inspect.

It took us over 3 years to sell and this was a bungalow in a highly sought after area. If we hadn't had this problem, the property would have sold within weeks of going on the market.

You sound a lovely person and because of that people will take advantage of you. The seller's estate agent and solicitor are working for them, not you. Don't let them bully you. In the matter of buying and selling houses you do not "help" the other side. Why should you pay everything to help them? You help yourself and think how much everything is going to cost YOU. Then if your sellers are reasonable, you come to a compromise. A house is a huge investment and invariably there will be other costs alongside the ones already highlighted in the survey. Unexpected repairs etc etc.

You have said yourself this is not your dream house. (Maybe the price is a reflection of the problem ?) I would carry on renting until something else better comes along. Walk away now and let the sellers sort THEIR problem out.

Their solicitor and your solicitor will both know that the vendor should pay for the indemnity. However, solicitors do have to take instructions from their clients so there is a certain amount of going backwards and forwards between the solicitors until either the seller or buyer agrees to pay. The sellers would have this problem with any potential buyer so it is most certainly their issue to sort out. Your solicitor may ask you what you want to do and you are fully within your rights to say no (at least at first!). Then your solicitor can go back to the seller's solicitor saying that it is for the seller to pay for an indemnity for his property. After all you could pay for the indemnity and then the seller pulls out. You're then left with an indemnity policy you don't need.

However, if you don't want to risk the whole transaction falling apart, then pay up and try to forget about it. In a year's time, it won't matter.

We had a vaguely similar experience earlier this year: after much, much searching (not much on the market in our price range around here) we offered on a house and our offer was accepted. When we had the valuation done, though, the surveyor said he couldn't value it until we'd had a structural survey done as there was cracking in the rear wall.

All hell broke loose; my thread is on here somewhere if you need some light reading . Started off with the EA and vendor insisting a structural survey wasn't needed and that we needed to push ahead, took a few days for them to cotton on to the fact that we couldn't 'push ahead' as our lender wouldn't allow it. Then they started insisting we didn't need a structural survey on the whole house and so we should just get the cracks surveyed; they were absolutely correct but then why make a fuss about us not wanting to get the whole house surveyed when we hadn't even said we wanted to. It felt a bit as though they were saying 'whatever you do, don't look in the cupboard under the stairs' - you immediately want to to look there! We suspected they knew there were other problems and were worried we were going to find them with another survey. They also pushed hard for us to use their 'friendly' structural surveyor - um, thanks but if I am paying then I'll choose my own surveyor.

We decided to 'think about it' over a bank holiday weekend - the additional survey was going to cost several hundred pounds, and when i talked to the original surveyor he told me even if the structural survey came back clear, he wasn't convinced he could value it at what we'd offered. Meanwhile - despite us saying we would think it over - the EA continued to hound us, trying to basically bully us as though we were kids and didn't know what we were doing (we're mid 40's and have owned houses all over the planet ffs). We asked whether the vendor would consider helping with the cost of the surveys and were told a definite 'no'.

In the end we pulled out, partly because we couldn't be sure we weren't pouring hundreds of pounds more into a house that the lender wouldn't force us to pull out of anyway, but mostly because the EA and vendors were unreasonable. We knew - the EA told us - that if the survey said work needed doing, there was no way the vendor would negotiate on price. I think if they had said 'hey, we'll help with the cost of discovery', even, then we would likely have pushed ahead to at least see what the additional survey said.

I was gutted, but we kept looking and a couple of months later found a house that was better for us (and cheaper, too). We've exchanged and will be completing once the vendors' new home has been built. We couldn't be happier with our choice.

Meanwhile the first house is still on the market, still the same price....

It is hard, but as a pp has said you need to make a business decision here, not a heart decision. It sounds as though you already have made lots of decisions to 'let things go', to try and make this work, and this is just the final straw. Several people here told me that if the house I was considering wasn't my 'dream home' then i should walk away, and they were right. You don't need to compromise to this extent on your home unless you really want to - and you certainly need to follow your solicitor's advice (that's what you are paying them for!). If you're not 100% in love with the house then I would go very, very quiet and let things just ride for a few days. When you finally return all the EA's increasingly frantic calls and emails, explain your concerns and that you are giving serious thought to whether you wish to proceed. Their response will tell you whether you need to pull out or not!

Good luck

We had an issue with an indemnity so DH did some googling, and I'm afraid to say, he said in the case where there's no planning permission, he read it was a bad idea to go ahead with the purchase. Something about drawing attention to the fact that you are aware of something illegal is the case.

Can you get retrospective planning permission? I would tell the vendors they need to get this, otherwise I'd be pulling out.

Sorry, when I replied before, I hadn't clocked what the indemnity was for. I think planning permission is a biggie, as opposed to some odd right to keep chickens on the village green kind of thing.

When was the work carried out OP? If it's over 20 years, there's no obligation for them to provide it.

Oh a DH has spoken, bangs gavel, no need for further discussion

It doesn't sound like this is a sensible purchase. You're probably paying at least £12k more than it's worth/you can resell for, out of 'niceness'? You've got to stop with the being 'nice' with a house purchase.

I'd pull out, god knows what other problems there may be. Because of all the other structural issues the survey found I'd worry about the structure of the extension. An indemnity doesn't cover you for that, only that the council doesn't find out about it. I wouldn't progress sale unless they agree to seek retrospective planning permission, at their expense.

You'd be foolish to proceed on this as it stands. Housing market is slowing so I'd wait for a safer purchase. As you're renting you are in a good position to buy next time a better property comes along.

It's tricky, buying houses, isn't it?

You mentioned that this is the only house in your price range. It may be that there is a reason they put it on the market at a discount. Could be the thing you have found needing an indemnity, could be something else. The trouble is, you only find out after you have bought, sorry OP

But I had to laugh at the idea that someone's DH 'did so googling and, on the basis of that, handed down a decision'. I just can't imagine why both of you didn't google, then have a discussion and decide together. Sigh.