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Original poster

Neighbour Dispute re Right of Access

96 replies

Neenpeensupreme · 30/07/2017 20:45

First time poster at my wits end!
Hi, I was hoping someone could advise me. We live in an end terraced house. Our elderly neighbour next door has a right of access to the path round the side of our house. She never uses her front door. Her family never use the front door either and all traipse round the back. We hate it as we have no privacy as they are literally walking past our back door. It wouldn't be the first time I've had to duck in my own kitchen as I've only got a towel wrapped round me and her son has walked passed. Also in the winter, they walk round in the dark giving me a real fright when I see a face at the window! In the summer when we're eating dinner outside the pass within 3 feet of our table! We have never said anything but things have gotten worse in the last year as sadly her husband passed away so her family visit more regularly. This is completely understandable but they still use the back door so on average they pass half a dozen times each day and more at the weekends.

We are in the middle of putting a six foot fence up which I had permission for (even though I didn't need to) but we know how difficult she can be. (It also has slip bolt lock). There are numerous reasons why we're putting it up. I.e. First and foremost, privacy, as where the neighbours sit in the garden they can look straight into the house. We have had people use our garden as a shortcut to get to the canal, we are planning on getting a dog in the near future. I inherited a lot of expensive garden ornaments when my dad passed away a few months ago.
Anyway, we thought this was the ideal time to ask her if the family could start using the front door. She has point blank refused. Now as far as I'm aware she should only be using the path for taking bins out and for workman etc. The issue I have I can't find any literature stating this.
Things have gotten out of hand a few days ago when we locked the gate and her son tried to get round. He banged our front door and started shouting abuse at us, he then threatened my husband to the extent we had to call the police.

Since then I have been to Citizens Advice Bureau who agreed with me it was unacceptable and they wrote a letter on our behalf to ask them to stop them using the path. I have phoned the council who again agreed this shouldn't be happening and suggested a mediation meeting. Over the last few days they have continued to ignore our pleas and defiantly walk past out back door. I suffer from anxiety and panic attacks and my husband had a TIA a few months ago and this is completely stressing us out. We just don't know where to go from here, short of seeing a lawyer

OP posts:

Flicketyflack · 31/07/2017 09:37

I lived in a house for all of my childhood with a right of access past three houses it was never popular but we always used our back door. Everyone that moved in to the house with the right of access hated it and eventually moved but they would or should have been told by their solicitor.

I would suggest get legal advice but if she has right of access in law li would think you are stuck.

rollonthesummer · 31/07/2017 09:37

I wouldn't imagine you can put a 6 foot locked fence up if they have rights of access. You want them to only use the path to put their bins out etc-would you want them to knock to ask you to open it each time? You can't do that if their have rights to use it, but obviously you need the paperwork showing you the legalities of it all.

If the immediate problem is them looking into your kitchen window, get a blind.

Lostinaseaofbubbles · 31/07/2017 09:41

If they have right of access they have right of access.

I also know a family who gave away a section at the end of their garden to their neighbour in return for the neighbour giving up their right of access right across the front of their living room window.

marleyandpea · 31/07/2017 10:17

I think you have a right to be peeved! I've lived in access properties where everyone has obeyed it fantastically - using it for bins/garden stuff/ moving stuff not just for every day walking - why would you even want to use the back ?!

ImaginaryCat · 31/07/2017 10:26

I've lived in a similar set up, also end terrace, 3rd house in always came round the back. They actually put a sofa in front of their front door, to maximise lounge space and block out the draft.
Fortunately we were good friends and in and out of each other's houses anyway. Others in the row who didn't like it did as per the diagram above, and created a lengthy path round the bottom of their garden.

Without sounding completely evil, you mention she's elderly and recently widowed, so family are checking in on her. How long might she stay in the house?

I think you need to invest in some window frosting in the meantime.

loveka · 31/07/2017 10:48

You absolutely cant put up a locked gate.

If your deeds say they have a right to pass and repass it means them and anyone they invite.

I sympathise, it's horrible for you but there's nothing you can do if it on the deeds. It may not be on yours (it wasnt on ours) but it may be on theirs.

Most people would only use it when they have to. A neighbour had a right of way through our garden and used it twice in 16 years!

I think if you can fence a pathway for them then thats all you can do. Whatever you do don't get into any sort of formal dispute as you will have to declare it when you sell.

TheHiphopopotamus · 31/07/2017 11:16

We had this when we rented a terrace house years ago. NDN had right of access and never, ever used their front door, in fact I think they'd put a sofa across it. Even the postman came round the back.

Her kids would dump their bikes in our garden, and stand and have conversations in it. They would never shut the gate in the side return so it used to bang in the wind. There were people constantly walking past and NDN used to look affronted that we had the temerity to be in the garden when she was walking through it.

Unfortunately, there was fuck all we could do about it, as we were renting for one, but they had right of access, so legally we couldn't do anything either. And I'm amazed that you've been able to do anything either, tbh. It made us absolutely certain never to buy or live in a house where next door can just walk through your garden at any given moment.

Liadain · 31/07/2017 11:24

No sympathy for you here. Tough shit, OP. She has right of access, she's just exercising her right. If it affects you that badly, you should have considered that before you moved in.

KatyBerry · 31/07/2017 13:37

Please op ignore the armchair warriors, just check your deeds- without the exact wording nobody can make these sweeping statements about what you definitely have to suck up or don't (former property lawyer here)

notapizzaeater · 31/07/2017 19:56

Wonders if it's a Sheffield thing as my nan lived in a terrace and you never used the front door ever ! To this day if I can see the back door I automatically go to it when I go to someone's house

PocketNiffler · 31/07/2017 22:37

My Sheffield friend has this set up and is happy with it. Took me a while to get used to seeing neighbours popping past the kitchen window. Even the postman uses the back!

An uncle in sandy (Bedfordshire) had the same access but people use it much less.

mistlethrush · 31/07/2017 22:44

It's not just Sheffield... lots of other places also have the same issue.

BubblesBuddy · 01/08/2017 00:06

It tends to be terraced houses that run left and right from a central alley that serves the back gardens. When I was young, we had it in rural Buckinghamshire and we never used the front door! Didn't even have a key to it! You just have a series of gates in fences that the users can unbolt. I just would not buy a property like this because the neighbours can use the access and they will.

Laine21 · 01/08/2017 00:38

My DD1 rented a house in stockport when she first moved out, they had a right of access behind the row of terraces, the neighbours had all agreed to spit their gardens, so there was a path across all 6 gardens at the back, but the path was about 10ft away from the house, giving them all a 'yard' area for privacy, a small fence, dividing the yard / patio with a small gate into the access path and then access to their garden on the other side of the path. I thought it an odd arrangement, but I prefer to use the front door.

NoqontroI · 01/08/2017 00:47

I used to live in a house where the neighbours went round the back all the time. I assumed the right of way was for bins and garden stuff only. But it wasn't. The neighbours would stare in through the windows as they walked past. It was every single window on the ground floor because of the layout of the house. I hated it. I sold up because of it and moved somewhere else where other people didn't have access rights through the garden.

DesperatelySeekingSushi · 01/08/2017 00:58

I can see both sides as I have right of access over neighbour's property.
My kitchen faces back and there's no way I am hauling bin bags of waste through my lounge.
But on the other hand I never use the path as an exit route, that's what my front door is for.
We have a little gate openable both sides. NDN knows I will only go through for bin day.
You are being unreasonable though to lock/deprive of access even if you think NDN is overusing the path: legally they can and you are causing a dispute over a ginnel.

Ghjklf · 01/08/2017 01:19

Since then I have been to Citizens Advice Bureau who agreed with me it was unacceptable and they wrote a letter on our behalf to ask them to stop them using the path

This sounds extremely odd. Had they seen your deeds etc? What was the wording?

I'm also surprised the 'council' agreed with you? I can't see how they could have 🤷🏻‍♀️ without a Solicetor looking at all the paperwork. Did they put anything in writing?

I think you need to find out the actual legal situation from an actual qualified Solicetor who has seen all the relevant paperwork/deeds etc.

It's not a moral question it's a legal question. The fact you find the neighbours annoying is irrelevant. The only questions you need to find the answer to is are your neighbours legally allowed to use and if so under what circumstances are they allowed to do so.

Try gardenlaw website

HaveAWeeNap · 04/08/2017 21:39

Any update, OP?

flyfar · 03/05/2020 15:58

Right of access is for the owner to use, not for everybody else to drag through.......

MrSheenandMe · 05/05/2020 12:35

CAB very unlikely to write to get involved in a property dispute between neighbours - even if they had seen the deeds - which I doubt they have.

They may have helped OP (as she asserts) to ask neighbours for "consideration" - but I am pretty sure they are not qualified to write and ask her not to use the path.

MrSheenandMe · 05/05/2020 12:40

And right of access is to the property and does not apply to individuals.

We had it once - in a flat ( a conversion with a split garden). Upstairs flat has to walk through ground floor flat's garden to access their own garden. V common in Victorian conversions. We couldn't stop the cleaner, the gardener, the friends and relations, the builders the workmen - and their dog - from using their garden. How could you police that anyway?

OP won't come back. I do feel sorry for her elderly neighbour though.

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