Kitchen layout help - again...

[NamedyChangedy]

After much to-ing and fro-ing, helped along by Mumsnetters every step of the way, the time has come to order my kitchen. I've been really happy with the layout we decided on, but I'm having a last minute dither - I've seen and heard a lot of very strong anti-island sentiment recently and it's making me have second thoughts.

The island in our plans has the sink, dishwasher and a bin in it so would be extremely functional. But could you chuck some ideas at me for where these things would go if we got rid of the island altogether?

I'd like to keep a seating area & telly in here somehow, as we've done away with one of our reception rooms in order to make the kitchen a large, family space. But I get that having seats at the island as well as a dining table might be overkill.

The plan is to get an extending table. It's usually just the 4 of us (DCs 7 & 5), but we do have family over for big meals as well. So we could leave the island where it is, but make it slightly narrower by taking out the seating perhaps?

The pantry kind of needs to stay where it is as there's compromised head height in that room (it's a slice of the old dining room which is on a lower level).

So tell me oh wise ones - what other options do we have...?

Swap the fridge and the cooker round or at least don't have the cooker right at the end next to the table. The fridge is the thing other people are most likely to want to access so makes sense for it to be near the seating and dining areas. Plus there's the potential for accidents with the cooker at the end of the run.

Other than that, I think it looks good - are there cupboards on the other side of the island? Could be a pain to access if there's an overhang of worktop or people sitting there. You could consider a single unit deep island and units on the wall opposite the main kitchen run for additional storage. You could just have a couple of seats at the island with half of it double unit depth so the kitchen is sociable for just a couple of people but bigger groups can sit at the table or on the sofa.

How wide is the room? Think the layout of kitchen is great - the only thing is I'd swap the dishwasher and bin if you can. H often stacks / unloads dishwasher whilst I'm pottering at hob / sink / making a coffee so its good to have dishwasher at opposite end of island to fridge etc, rather than in the middle so you have to keep walking around it.

Also, it might feel a little awkward to watch the TV over the dining table, is the room wide enough to turn the sofa 90 degrees and have the TV on the left wall?

I think having an island is really helpful. Could you turn the island around and kind of join it to the table then have a seating area at the end with smaller sofa and chair. I'll draw a diagram and find a pic of what I mean.

I'd do what wowfudge says about swapping the fridge and oven, if people are at the table and want another drink you won't have to walk right through your cooking space.
Only other thing I can see is dishwasher being right opposite the hob, in case someone opens the dishwasher while someone is at the hob, could be a trip hazard?

Can you provide length and width of the area please?

I mean like these pics. Whichever way you orient the island you can do this to get more space down the sofa and by the doors to outside. But I think if you turn the island by 90° then you get even more space at the end. Does that make sense?

Like this:

Thanks @wowfudge - you've given lots of useful advice before. I definitely see what you mean about the fridge & cooker, great idea!

@namechangedtoday15 the room is about 4.7m wide. And good point, I'll take a look at that - if the fridge moves then we need to re-think the position of the sink and dishwasher too.

@FagAshMIL, it's approx. 4.7m x 7.5m long (excluding the pantry).

@dynevoran - VERY interesting idea. I think we have the width to rotate the island. Do you think it would work being perpendicular to the run of units along the side wall?

If suggest keep fridge near pantry ( all food together ) swap table and sofa so sofa looking out to garden to almost closing off that cooking end of kitchen ?! Then agree swap bin and DW too ! ( don't forget to order an end panel )
Make sure you have adequate space between island and perimeter kitchen.

Thanks @OnePlanonHouzz, that does make sense too, re. fridge position.

So the general consensus seems to be that the island stays then? I think it seems to work for us and really like this layout, I just know that some people are vehemently anti-island and I let that put me off for a split second. Thanks so much.

Dont put sink on island - biggest mistake I ever made. I had a very expensive large custom made island installed which just is a plinth to display either my dirty dishes or my drip drying large saucepans, roasting tins / woks.....after 13 long years it is coming out. I would also have rounded edges and space for stools to fit cleanly under as it is always where people congregate socially - I would also do it in wood as this is warm - and dont do waterfall edges as I have done which prevent people congregating in a sociable way as the are forced to sit shoulder to shoulder in a straight line

Yes I wouldn't swap fridge and oven either - agree its better next to pantry and away from seating area.

I love my island - have had island in my last 3 kitchens! Such a sociable space.

Re sink - it depends how much space you have on the run opposite (on the back wall) and how you use a sink. We have a very similar set up to you and didn't have space for hob and sink on back wall so had to have either sink or hob on island. Definitely didn't want hob (extraction fan would have been difficult / expensive) in the middle of the room, was worried at children sitting at island near hob etc) and we don't have lots of washing up (all goes in dishwasher, don't have much that can't go in that) and if we do, its all dried & put away immediately. Its a personal choice but works for us.

I've also had a wooden worktop before and I wouldn't have one again.

Hello again clever people - a mini update from me on kitchen stuff... After some initial excavation, it turns out that the drainage situation won't allow the layout that I drew a couple of weeks ago, so we've had to rethink things slightly.

I just wanted to run a rejigged version past you - see my rather imprecise drawing for rough proportions. I think the stairs won't end up as wide, and the WC door might be behind the W/D but we haven't ironed out the details yet...

We were originally going to have a proper utility room with counter space, cupboards and a sink, but that's been downgraded to just a washer/dryer stack on the way into the pantry. We now have a cupboard by the entrance, which I envisage we'll use for coats, muddy wellies, school bags, helmets etc.

I suppose I'm looking for the MN nod that this makes sense, as I'm struggling to visualise it all. Seems like it's quite a large pantry, and a small cupboard. Would you take up some of the pantry space for a bigger boot room?

PS. I wasn't sure whether this should be a new thread or an update in the existing one - what's MN etiquette here??

What is the drainage issue?

It's to do with the floor levels apparently @wowfudge - the toilet would have been half a metre lower than the manhole in the original drawings. I have to admit that I don't understand all the ins and outs but it makes sense that gravity would force all the yucky stuff downwards...?

Ah - I know they sometimes get a bad press, but you could have a saniflo.

Anyway - how does this change your kitchen layout? I can't quite figure it out from the diagram.

Ah yes I didn't do a full before so you can compare - basically quite a nice size utility room is becoming the little cupboard nearest the front door. I think I'm wondering more how to use it - struggling with lack of imagination. I should probably just get on Pinterest - I googled 'boot room' but got some very lavish examples with custom cabinetry and elegant benches for taking off of wellies. We won't have space for all that. Also I've never had a pantry so not sure how best to approach it. Sounds like it might be best to get help from an interior designer, doesn't it?!

We have a pantry cupboard. It was original from when house built and is amazing. Basically it is a full size door (like the size of one between rooms) behind which is a cupboard sized space recessed into wall with shelves. They are about 30 cm deep and it is a nice tall cupboard so lots of shelves of different heights (short one for spice jars, tall one for cereal boxes, medium for flour, tins etc)
All our food is in there. Drinks are stored at bottom on "floor" which is continuation of kitchen floor. You can see everything clearly.

If you had something like that, ok you won't be able to walk into it but you would get loads storage and then have much more space behind it for a decent room off hallway for the the utility bits and coats storage on your plans.
Worth a thought!

Thanks @Bababing1 that makes sense. I did think we could do with a narrower pantry. 30cm is about half the depth I thought we'd need though. Do you find you can see everything on the shelves easily, or would drawers be more convenient?