Has anyone project managed their own extension? (Used bricklayer, roofer etc. rather than got a builder to do the lot)

[KimKardashiansArse]

The quotes for our extension are coming in much higher than expected and I'm wondering whether we should try to save money by project managing it ourselves.

I'm not sure I'm using the right terminology. What I mean is to get the individual trades to quote and appoint them directly instead of use a builder who sorts everything out for us.

I'm wondering how easy / difficult it is? Any advice?

I am afraid if it's a large extension and a refurbishment we have used the architect t to project manage as well We have always made sure they are Chartered as we have felt you get what you pay for

You certainly can, but before you do make sure you know the law and how it affects you.

You should find out about the Construction (Design and Management) Regulations 2015 and the two roles you'll then be taking on: Client role and Principal Contractor.
You'll have duties in law regarding the safety and health of those you bring in to work for you which a project manager / builder / Principal Contractor will otherwise assume responsibility for.

The CITB have got good clear guidance on their website (sorry, can't link).

On grand designs etc it always ends up costing loads more not to use someone because it's hard to schedule as efficiently as a professional and any time delays cost you money for e.g. Scaffolding, labourers hanging around waiting. We just had a load of work done and even with the head builder project managing I had enough to do with making sure the fitting etc all arrived on time.

If you get a good builder they will have good contacts with sub-contractors and will get reasonable quotes. It is a faff for individual sub-contractors working for an inexperienced homeowner, so the rates they charge initially will probably be more than they'd charge a builder plus they could well sting you for extras (there are nearly always things you forget). Whereas if they are working regularly for a builder they won't want to mess up that relationship. I wouldn't do it unless you were very confident.

We did this for half of the work we had done (Major house renovations). It was very time consuming, took much longer and was more expensive (not excessively), but the quality of work was much better than the builders we previously had.

The main difficulty is that individual contractors do not work with other contractors as a team. I initially lined up electricians, plumbers and plasterers thinking that they could all work on site at the same time, but it didn't work. The plumber kept turning the water off, the sparks kept turning the electricity off etc and as they didn't know each other they weren't able to work round each other. I ended up rescheduling it all. The end result was worth it though, and I'd do it again.

Confidence is quickly evaporating reading this!

I knew nothing about those regulations knickers thanks for mentioning that.

The plasterer I spoke to about it a while ago made it sound so easy (he does something like loft conversions too). He said to just send the plans to each trade, get them to tell you what work they would do and how long it would take and then draw it all on a timeline.

X-post with you dean. Interesting that you'd do it again. By the sound of it you wouldn't recommend it as a way of saving money though? I was worried about what hill mentioned about the trades upping their quotes.

On balance, we spent more, but felt it less as the work was much more spread out. A builder could have completed the work in 4 weeks, maybe less. It took us 6 months to get quotes, agree prices with contractors and get the work completed.
All of the tradesmen kept to their quotes.

Also, I genuinely think that the extra cost was due to higher quality. When we had a builder we were paying for guys to stand around and make tea / tidy up badly / make racist jokes etc. But I think we had shit builders.

I can only imagine it to be an utter nightmare, have you got a few different builders to quote ?
Our builder wasnt VAT registered which made a difference and he also charged us for labour and materials separately so we knew there was no mark up

I've Project Managed large contracts professionally (not for houses), and found it well within my capabilities. It's a complex and valued job.

Moving to a different area with no contacts, and trying to get minor works done on my own house is much more difficult. Builders pay less attention to me, and tradesmen are as unreliable as everyone says.

I think it's because they know they won't lose millions of future business.

Personal recommendation is best. If you know one good tradesman, he will only recommend other people of a similar standard (good people hang around together, and so do bad ones). Don't stand any nonsense, some will walk all over you if you let them.

Good people are busy and have work stacked up for months to come. They can also pick and choose.

Small builders will have a good range of trade contacts and probably no permanent employees. Their contacts will be as good, or as bad, as the builder treats them.

Anyone who is hanging around spare may not have a good reputation.

Good people don't need to pay to advertise on "recommendation" websites.

If you know one good tradesman, he will only recommend other people of a similar standard (good people hang around together, and so do bad ones).

This ^ definitely. We had a brilliant plasterer, who we'd used before, and got recommendations from him. We waited for the people we wanted.

What they said.

One plus for doing it yourself is that you aren't tied in as much. If you aren't happy with what someone is doing then you can get rid without too much hassle. You also don't have to make up your mind about everything from the outset (though a good builder shouldn't hammer you for changes, it is always difficult getting value when you do change things).

I think we've had three quotes now out of about seven builders who came to quote. Two were insanely expensive and the other was still about 25% over the top end of our budget.

I was thinking to try posting it on mybuilder next but it sounds like that might not be the best idea either!

We did our own extension and if I could go back I would have paid someone to do it all. It's taken far longer than we hoped for and trying to schedule all the different trades was a right PITA. I don't think we've saved money in the long run either :(

We did, but only because our builder fucked off and disappeared, and was only manageable as all his trades were thus available and very happy to work directly for us. MrNC knows loads about building and sourcing, I know a reasonable amount, but it was still a huge amount of work for many months.
Get a builder. You'll still need to keep an eyr on them to ensure things are done right, but really don't underestimate the effort. I was on mat leave so could be around and DP could work very flexibly and skive off a fair bit, but even so it was a horrendous eight months until we were all weathertight.

A small builder (not figuratively you understand) may be ok with you buying the materials so they don't go through his books and hence he can stay below VAT. You probably won't get his builders merchants discounts but you might. But it's common for a builder to add on 5-10% on materials he buys (you may take months to settle up, he's going to have to keep the right side of his suppliers).

We have a small builder, he only works with trades he likes the work of, and their personalities ! I trust him with a key to the house and he lets trades in and out. I don't think I could have organised it myself. It rains, the roofers can't work, which means it's not water tight, we don't need the carpenter the next day, the plasterer the day after etc but you've booked them and everyone costs £150+ a day so what are they going to do for you today ? Too stressful for me.

If the costs are coming in high, ask for break downs of labour and materials. Two builders cost £1500 a week and there's little you can do to reduce this. We kept our costs down by doing it all by day rates BUT you need to trust your builder (and all his trades 100%) and mn will think you're crazy.

No but I wish we had! Our project manager is flipping useless!

Are you happy with complaining directly to workers and potentially firing them? If not then get someone else to manage it!

We're doing it! I think we've bitten off more than we can chew and part of me wonders if we're crazy for doing it, but it's going ok so far (early days!). It's a double storey kitchen/1st floor bedroom extension in London (around 60sqm) which I think would have cost around £180-200k if commissioned a builder/company to do the lot. I think we'll come in under £100k and that's with lots of nice extras (polished concrete floors, slim frame sliding doors, etc.). We've paid a builder to do the demolition and foundations, next comes the timber frame which will go up in a matter of days and then we'll hire individual trades (bricklayers, roofers etc.) to work on individual elements.

We do have some advantages though: DH and I are both project managers (albeit in IT and research), DH is handy and has learnt plumbing, electrics, tiling, bricklaying, painting/decorating, kitchen fitting etc. We have a few good trade contacts as well. On the downside we've been renovating this house for over 2 years whilst living in it! I'd definitely say it's worth it ... but only just.

Thank you, loads to think about. Good luck to those still in the thick of it!