If you asked a builder to do this what would you expect?

[PonderLand]

I'm having a new kitchen put in and have got all the trades separately after failing to get one company to do it all. I've just had the builders in. Meant to be for three days but they brought it forward one day and spent 1 1/2 days on it. I asked them to rip out the kitchen and open up the chimney breast to fit a new oven. I explained the electrician, gas and plasterer are coming after they've done (next week).

Yesterday afternoon (the second day) I asked one of the labourers if they'll need another day or so and he made a face as if to say possibly a bit longer/not sure.

Then the boss came to pick them up, lots of commotion, lots of running around and then they told me it's finished! I explained I couldn't pay in cash until the day after as banks had closed. I've checked the work and it looks half done! Appliances that I told them we didn't want are still there and electric cooker wired in, they've left a temporary lintel in, not even taken all the plaster of the chimney, hooks from cupboards still in, tea station of a cupboard door on top of old cooker still there!

He said he'll get the skip taken away today but we're gonna need another skip to finish it by the looks of things, the skip is only quarter full at the moment. I'm paying 1.500 and I feel completely mugged by what they've done!

They're coming today to check the stuff I've mentioned but he's really coming to get the money, I'm on my own as partner has been away and I'm worried that he's gonna talk me into giving him full payment and tell me I'm wrong to expect it to be ready for plasterer. Can post photos if necessary just want someone to say who's right/wrong in this situation.

Yuck, sounds super stressful. Did you have a written agreement that details the jobs you asked them to do? Hard to say without you having clear evidence that it's only half done...?

This was the written quote :

' I've worked the price out for the work we discussed yesterday
• Open up chimney breast and install lintel.

• rip out kitchen and remove floor tiles.

• remove window and brick up opening.

Total price £1500.

Price includes all materials and removal of waste/rubbish. '

DO NOT pay them until you're happy the job is complete. If you do they will have no motivation to come back and finish it.
Honestly, you need to woman up and tell them they get paid when it's finished.

Do you have a friend that can come over and support you if you're feeling worried?

He's just told me he's on another job today (was meant to be with me wed, thurs, fri) so I think he's overbooked himself and gave me a rush job. He has all positive reviews so I think he's given me a rushed/half arsed job. A lot of money to give away for that.

My dad would come round if he finishes work early but they've only ever seen me on my own (with baby) I don't want them to think I'm 'calling in support' and worried it will escalate it to the point he refuses due to being on the defensive? Probably over thinking it but want to keep it friendly/professional.

Get your dad round.
You not getting ripped off is more important than what the builder thinks. Also if your dad is savvy about this stuff he will be able to give you his opinion.

Again DO NOT PAY IN FULL UNTIL YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE JOB (and yes I'm shouting )

You haven't been mugged until you pay them. Don't dream of paying them till they finish.

Good that it's clear the job's not completed. Stand your ground. The prospect of non-payment as well as a negative review should be quite compelling.

So am I right in thinking that the kitchen should of been emptied of all appliances and old plaster? I assumed as he was getting the skip he was aware that he was taking out all rubbish not just nit picking at certain things.

I don't have a clue about building work and I only raised the concern when my friend who's a kitchen fitter questioned the level of finish and he spotted the extra lintel as I wasn't sure how we'd get the extractor in. Doh!

I won't give them any money until I'm happy but I am aware that he's gonna know I have 1,500 in cash in the house, there's three of them and they'll all likely question what I consider the meaning 'gut the kitchen for the plasterer' to mean and I'm not too sure of the meaning myself anymore

If you're worried about being pressured into paying in full, don't get the money out of the bank yet.

They've not finished the job, so you wouldn't pay them until they have, therefore no reason to have the money in the house yet.

Also, why are you paying cash (avoiding VAT?), as I think I'd want a trail of a Cheque of bank transfer to be honest.

It sounds like they haven't done what you asked, the only exception might be the appliances. If the oven is hardwired in they may be expecting that your electrician will sort that out?

I would say that his quote does not include removal of appliances. An electrician will need to deal with the cooker.

Other than that do not pay until the work is completed. If he insists pay say £500 and the balance when complete. It needs to be an amount retained big enough to make a difference and to ensure he comes back. If its just 10% then he might not bother.

Also tell him the skip will stay in place until it is full/finished with.

You've agreed a price for 3 days' work and they have been there for only 1.5 days. Either you pay them half the money or they finish the job properly and you pay the full amount agreed. The removal of the appliances is, I would say, a grey area and should have been clarified when you received the quote, especially if an electrician is needed to disconnect anything and leave things in a safe condition - any fool can rip something out leaving a live wire dangling.

They need to finish the plaster removal, remove the temporary lintel and put all the rubbish in the skip. I would ask them would they mind also putting the old appliances in the skip for you - they are unlikely to say no unless the skip is piled sky high. They might think you intend to sell them unless you say. We sold the appliances we took out of our old kitchen on ebay - I didn't mind only getting a few quid for things which were old but working as it saved us a trip to the tip. We got good money for some of the stuff.

If the electric cooker is still wired in you should have got the electrician to disconnect that first. I would expect a builder to do that.

You've agreed a price for 3 days' work and they have been there for only 1.5 days - she agreed a price for the work, not the number of days. Presumably if the work turned out to be more tricky you wouldn't be proposing that she paid more for extra days?

Their quote is very brief, what was the actual discussion which took place with them when you showed them the job? I would have expected that either you would have explained or they would have queried exactly what was to happen.

unfortunate that's debatable though and I would be saying to them that they said it would take 3 days, they've done a day and a half and it isn't finished. The builder will have based his quote on the day rate for his labourers plus the skip hire if that's part of it.

I think the issue with only been there 1.5 rather than 3 days is that they have clearly not done all the work. Why take plaster of one section of wall but leave big holes in the other end? It seems half finished and the way they acted yesterday was like they had to rush unexpectedly. If they did all the work in 1.5 days I'd be happy as that is better for me. Means I can get back to some normality! I'm paying for the work completed not a daily rate/wage etc.

He's coming tomorrow, if he's rude etc then I'll be more assertive. So far I've made out like it's just a few loose ends..as soon as he does the points I've mentioned then I'll pay the cash. I asked him how he preferred to be paid, bank transfer then or cash the next day. He chose the cash. Should I be asking questions about that or is that his issue/choice? I didn't say anything.

Should he give me an invoice before I pay him? So many questions, sorry!

Unfortunate one way I described it was that I needed the room ready for the plasterer and other trades to begin. I asked him about the appliances and he said as long as they aren't gas they can take them out. I put the dishwasher in the skip last night but the cooker is still there. I'll ask him about it when he comes. I'm not too bothered about that as I'm sure we could work it out. It's connected into a white box and they haven't unscrewed that to look.

They came back and are doing the work. I've just asked about things to do with the chimney as the other areas are a grey area and I don't want to take the piss.

He was defensive but they came back and unloaded the tools before we even spoke so they were aware they had some work to finish before seeing it. Next time I get a quote I'm going to make sure every single fine detail is written down! He said the plaster is the plasterers job I said I'd at least expect them to clear the chimney as that is what they were working on! I've found plasterers charge more to prep than a builder would but I'm just gonna have to go with it. I was going to use these guys to knock down an outbuilding and do some stuff on the roof!

Well done OP.

Glad you got it sorted OP.
However, valuable lessons here, for anyone having building work done, speaking as someone involved in the building trade for 30 years.
Get a proper quote - a few lines "on the back of a fag packet" don't count. The quote should list everything you want done, ask for each section of work to be itemized. The quote should be on proper headed paper with full contact details. A quote btw is a fixed price, an estimate is more of an educated guess.
If you are not sure everything you want is listed, query it and get it written down.
Agree up front the day rate for any extra work you want during the course of the job. Builders will bill you extra for putting that shelf up as in "while you are here, can you just..." and you should get an idea of how much that will cost you.
VAT: I think the threshold for VAT is a turnover of about £85,000 pa , which is easy to get to if the builder is buying all the materials. For this reason many builders ask that the client pays for large items direct. Paying cash to a VAT registered builder to avoid tax is illegal for the builder not the client unfortunately if you do then be aware you still pay VAT on materials, as the builder has paid the VAT when he bought them, it's just VAT on Labour you are saving.
Payment: agree payment details up front. Payment on completion is fine for small jobs, larger ones you will probably be asked for stage payments, agree the stages up front and check the work is up to the stage when you pay.
We never ask for cash, we much prefer bank transfer, it's easy and quick and no one has to have thousands in cash in the house or their handbag going to the bank.
Finally, decide what you want done before work starts, if you change your mind mid job it will almost certainly cost more!

Apologies if this is teaching grandma how to suck eggs, OP!

OP in future when you get a quote ask for a 'schedule of works' this is a very detailed itemised list that will show exactly what they are quoting for.

The asking for cash would have made me a bit dubious tbh. Fair enough if it's a small job but 1500 quid is a lot of cash.