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Original poster

Abandoned by my builder

30 replies

ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 18:33

I am half way through a massive full house re-model and extension, and my builder has just announced that he is off to another job next week and won't be back for 3 months. The new job wasn't booked in until after ours, but basically the builder has grossly underestimated how long ours would take, and is unwilling to put off this new job in order to finish our house.

The house is a total demolition site. We have one working plug socket, no kitchen etc. We will be left in a position where we can't carry on with any work while he is gone. The timing couldn't be worse. We thought we'd be finished by 3months, not still stuck with this mess.

The best part is, builder doesn't seem to think he is doing anything at all wrong. Totally unapologetic. He has pointed out that things have taken longer than he expected, but I surely he should have made allowances for that.

AIBU to be totally pissed off about this? His 'I'm doing nothing wrong' attitude has thrown me, and I just want to check this is an unacceptable thing to do!

OP posts:
KirstyJC · 04/05/2017 18:37

Have you paid him anything yet? Have you got a contract with him and does it specify timescales? I don't think I would want him back if he can do that sort of thing !

namechangedtoday15 · 04/05/2017 18:38

Have you changed the scope of the job since he gave you a time estimate? Have you changed your mind about things? Have you caused any delay (eg by not ordering kitchen in time etc?).

Otherwise, no, I'd be livid too.

HunkyDory69 · 04/05/2017 18:38

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

KimKardashiansArse · 04/05/2017 18:46

That's horrendous. I would just echo the questions that have already been asked - what does your contract say and are you responsible for the delays.

Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 18:57

Thanks for the replys! Glad to know it's not just me.

He is on a day rate so no contract, which I'm relieved about to be honest as it makes severing ties easier. I already have a new builder potentially lined up, but I didn't know whether it would be bad form to tell the old builder not to bother coming back. Especially as I know he has turned away one or two other small jobs because of ours.

I honestly haven't caused any delays or changed my mind on anything. I did add a couple of extra items of work, but we are talking about 2 weeks-worth max. Yet we are at least 8 weeks off finishing. I gave him the option of not doing the extras (they were jobs that could have been done by another trade). If he had told me at that point that they would have meant not finishing the job, I would have given them to someone else. But he seemed very keen for the work. I also warned him when he first came around to look at the job that there would be extras and to take that into consideration. It's pretty inevitable with a job like this I reckon.

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 04/05/2017 18:59

Find someone else, get them in, then tell the fucker. And make sure potential clients know what they're in for with him. I'm Angry for you.

Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 19:00

The future client is a friend, which is obviously a problem as he is getting prioritised before me.

I'm happy enough with the job that's been done so far. He's not the quickest, but he is thorough, and we've got on well. Just so annoying. And bizarre that he thinks it is acceptable.

OP posts:
Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 19:07

Thanks again, just wanted to check I wasn't being unfair to tell him not to come back. I'm just relieved that I could find another builder to keep the project running! This new one comes well recommended, and is only available as another client cancelled at the last minute.

OP posts:
namechangedtoday15 · 04/05/2017 19:22

I think its perhaps (with the benefit of hindsight) down to the way you've instructed him. I don't think builders doing a sizeable job are employed on a 'day rate' - there's absolutely no incentive for them to finish the job. Now that you're going to kick him off the job, he still gets (say) 60 x 1 day rate, whether he leaves it half done or complete.

Bearbehind · 04/05/2017 19:27

You have no commitment to him just as he's proved he has none to you.

Why anyone would employ trades on a day rate for a sizeable job has always mystified me.

There's no incentive for them to finish and no consequence if they don't.

Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 19:53

The scope of the job was the reason we went for day rate. The quotes we were getting in were ridiculously high because builders were unable to price it and so just over estimating 'to be safe'. And I won't entertain estimates.

As annoying as this experience is, I don't regret my decision as I'm saving £££. And I'm doing a fair bit of work myself, to save even more money.

OP posts:
Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 19:55

I agree I'd never go for a day rate for a straightforward extension.

OP posts:
namechangedtoday15 · 04/05/2017 20:11

Well I'd be wary of any builder who says he's available at such short notice (the replacement you've lined up) - we waited about 10 months for our builder as he was booked up almost a year in advance, and if anyone had cancelled, the jobs before us would have had first choice of starting earlier. But if you've seen his work and he comes recommended, fair play. Just get him signed up to the job as a whole with an end rate rather than a daily rate.

Bearbehind · 04/05/2017 20:14

The quotes we were getting in were ridiculously high because builders were unable to price it and so just over estimating 'to be safe'. And I won't entertain estimates.

But the fact is the project has massively overrun so the contingency other quotes built in was justified.

It sounds like this is just the price you pay for trying to get it done for less than somebody who was prepared to see it through wanted.

Given you've got someone else lined up and youre still saving money I can't really see your problem.

Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 20:36

I know namechange, I would normally be wary too, but this one really does check out it would seem. I will stick to dayrate though, as I wouldn't want to be tied in. I didn't really explain the work fully in my OP, but it's a historical building restoration, that will probably take over a year in total. It's just not the sort of project you can get sensible quotes for.

As it is, I'm paying pre-agreed dayrates (most trades I have in are not VAT registered) I'm buying all materierals myself on trade discount) which is equating to big savings. Plus, as I said, I'm doing a lot of work myself/getting friends in etc. But yes, with no contract I have no control over unfinished work. There are definately disadvantages!

To be fair, I don't mind a bit of coming-and-going. But 3 months at point is not on!

OP posts:
User99573864 · 04/05/2017 20:42

Building an extension on a day rate, no wonder it's taking longer than 'planned'!

User99573864 · 04/05/2017 20:45

most trades I have in are not VAT registered

Alarm bells! They're all turning over less than £85k a year? They can't be very busy then, plus it's idiotic to be in a trade that buys lots of materials and not be able to claim the vat back on them.

Also by 'check out' do you mean good reviews on the notoriously dodgy check a trade/my builder websites?!

Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 20:49

But the fact is the project has massively overrun so the contingency other quotes built in was justified.
It hasn't overrun by mine, and everyone elses timescale - just this builder apparently! We're currently sitting at about 10% of our cheapest quote for the interior work, and over 1/2 of the way through with all materials purchased. I'm happy with the quality of the work. I've taken time off work to manage it all, and even with all this going on I don't regret it.

Given you've got someone else lined up and youre still saving money I can't really see your problem.
My 'problem' is that I just wanted opinion on whether to tell this guy not to come back (and just continue with new builder). Why so touchy? Are you my builder?! Grin

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 04/05/2017 20:53

OP, you clearly think you're right and have a back up plan so I'm not sure why you posted.

If you chose to use trades on day rate, who's turnover is so low they aren't VAT registered, then you need to be prepared for problems.

Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 20:56

Building an extension on a day rate, no wonder it's taking longer than 'planned'!
The extension is tiny. It's the renovation that is the major work. And as I stated above, it's going fine according to my plan.

Alarm bells! They're all turning over less than £85k a year? They can't be very busy then, plus it's idiotic to be in a trade that buys lots of materials and not be able to claim the vat back on them
Where abouts in the country are you? I'm very rural and hardly any of the one man bands around here are VAT registered.

Also by 'check out' do you mean good reviews on the notoriously dodgy check a trade/my builder websites?!
No. I'm not stupid. Is it so hard to believe that, overall, I am getting good jobs done and saving money?

OP posts:
Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 21:06

OP, you clearly think you're right and have a back up plan so I'm not sure why you posted.
I explained my reason for posting in my reply to your previous post. I'm not sure why my renovation arrangements are so offensive to some of you, nor why you can't believe that - other than this issue - everything is going ok. Yes, I did expect more problems doing it this way. I knew what I was taking on. I'm not completely inexperienced or ill-prepared.

I don't want to put a builder out of work that he thought he had without good reason. Just wanted to canvass opinion on whether this qualifies as 'good reason'.

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 04/05/2017 21:10

OP, you started a thread saying you'd been 'abandoned by your builder' but it transpires you'd used him on day rate because it was the cheaper option.

now you are defending your choice saying it's all fine anyway, even though you've only realised today your builder won't be back next week.

Most odd.

In your shoes I'd be asking why my builder waited until today to tell me he wouldn't be back on Monday Hmm

Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 21:23

OP, you started a thread saying you'd been 'abandoned by your builder' but it transpires you'd used him on day rate because it was the cheaper option.
If, given the arrangement we have with him, you think it is reasonable for him to go off for 3 months with minimal notice, then I welcome your opinion. That is why I started this thread. I can't decide whether I would be unfair to take all further work away from him. I'll be starting the new builder regardless to get the interior done, but there are still several months of exterior work to do which I could put him on to at a later date if I decide to. The exterior work is not time-critical.

In your shoes I'd be asking why my builder waited until today to tell me he wouldn't be back on Monday hmm
Believe me, I have. I do believe the reason is genuine - appalling time management in promising a start date for another job that was always going to clash with our work, and burying his head in the sand over it.

OP posts:
Original poster
ProfessionalPirate · 04/05/2017 21:33

And I'm sorry if the later info felt like a drip feed. I should have explained that I am project manager in my OP, but was in a rush and missed it off. If that changes your expectation of the tradesman/builder, then I'm still keen to hear opinions.

OP posts:
Bearbehind · 04/05/2017 21:34

I suspect you'll never hear from him again regardless of what you say to him.

If communications between the 2 of you were so poor you've only found this out today then there's a reason for that.

He doesn't want to keep on working for you- simples.