Vendors being a tad 'odd'

[xandersmom2]

Hi All, new here and hoping someone can help :-)

After much searching, dh and i finally found a house we like and had our offer accepted. We've lived - and owned property - all over the world but this is our first house purchase in the UK.

We had a homebuyer's survey done which indicated that there is a crack in the rear wall of the house and (as a separate matter) they feel the back patio doors weren't properly installed with appropriate support, so have said that a structural survey is needed - surveyor has stated he cannot complete the house valuation until he's seen the structural report.

Vendor and her EA are being a bit freaky. First of all they tried to talk us out of a structural survey and we had to point out that we had no choice as our lender requires it! Then the EA called twice to tell us we only need a structural survey on the crack and we don't need a full structural survey (we haven't yet ordered either kind of survey so why she's flipping out about this i don't know); on the last occasion my dh asked why the vendor is so averse to a full structural survey and she tried to brush it aside and make out that we're trying to delay proceedings - which we're not, we only got the homebuyer's survey back today!

Both structural surveyors that we've spoken to have said they'll inspect just the crack if we'd like, but that a full structural survey doesn't cost that much more and would give us greater protection and they'd recommend this. The lender's surveyor has said the lender is just interested in the crack and so just having that inspected would be fine. Honestly we would have proceeded to just have the crack inspected if the EA hadn't kicked up such a stink and actually made us smell a rat (which may or may not be there).

There were other items in the homebuyer's survey that (at our broker's recommendation) we asked the vendor to comment on, and the only comments that came back were 'surveys always say those things, everything is fine'. Sorry but based on personal experience I'm fairly sure every survey doesn't say that (among other things) the chimney is crumbling and in urgent need of repair, the roof underfelt urgently needs repair, and there's no insulation in the attic! (Funny story – vendor insisted there was no attic. When I pointed out the attic hatch in the hall ceiling she told me she’d never noticed it – she’s lived there 10 years – and had never been up there...!)
We're not FTB, we spotted some (but not all) of what the survey is pointing out and we're not wasting anyone's time, but we're careful shoppers and don't want to buy a lemon. We weren't looking for them to offer to pay for everything and were/are happy to just move forward and get quotes and reassess at that point, but we were looking for them to at least acknowledge and accept that we will be getting quotes for this other work and not try to railroad us (EA actually wanted to know if we could get the structural surveyor there today).

Much as we liked this property, I’m getting a bit of a ‘feeling’ about it. We’re in rented at the moment and don’t have to move (haven’t given notice etc) so if this house doesn’t work out we’ll just take another look around for something else. I'm a bit taken aback by the vendor’s attitude and unsure how to proceed. Anyone have any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks in advance!

I'd be tempted to have a frank discussion with the EA and say that whilst you are not looking for reasons to drop your offer, you will probably look to renegotiate if there is major work identified which isn't part and parcel of maintaining a house of that age. Plant the seed. You might also want to suggest the EA speak to their client and sound them out because you don't want to incur the cost of a structural survey if they have no flexibility at all and may have to withdraw your offer. Point out that if a structural survey finds issues then anyone else who instructs one will find the same. I.e. they may need a reality check.

She acts like she really wants to move - she and her new hubby (remarriage late in life for both) want to move overseas and - allegedly! - have a property all lined up somewhere warm and sunny.

They tried to sell in 2012 but it never happened. Do you think that they had their dream of overseas back then? Sterling has taken a battering since Brexit so their sums may not add up any more which is why they don't want to budge on price.
I'd be tempted to walk. Why waste hundreds more on survey fees for this property, especially if you are getting bad vibes. Keep looking elsewhere.

PhilODox - where the heck do you store all your junk?! I couldn't live without my attic... .

wowfudge - I like your suggestion. Having slept on this, I'm not inclined to pay several hundred pounds more for a survey which is only going to raise more issues (whoever heard of a structural survey that says 'this is a terrific house, no problems here!'?) only for the vendor to refuse to budge. That's just wasting our money, our and their time, and time for us to look for another house!

I was going to say what wowfudge has already put very well. If the sellers can't/won't budge on price if you find something and you think there's a reasonable possiblity they might, it sounds as though the cost of the full structural survey would best be spent on another house!

maybe suggest to the vendors that if they are serious about selling then they should pay for the full survey.
A survey will be a small cost to them when taken against the house price. It would show good will on their part.
If they do then there will be no cost to you.
If they don't then you have a good cause to think there is a problem with the house.

We actually had a similar situation when we were buying our first house. Turns out the work they'd done on an attic conversion was a compete botch job some by a mate and they had no indemnity policy(??) for it?

We did not make an offer purely because they were massive liars and couldn't take the risk.

Purpleleotard - our broker actually asked about that for us straight off, but the surveyor said apparently the lender requires us to commission the structural survey (not sure why, probably some legality or other). But, great idea!

Yes, what wowfudge and others said.

Have conversation with EA - that you won't proceed now without the full structural survey, as all the pressure has made you nervous where previously you were not. And that should the survey find something structurally significant, and thus expensive, that you would be looking to discuss price in view of this. So if the vendors would refuse to negotiate at that point, you'd rather pull out now and save yourselves the money on the survey. But that any subsequent buyer would find the same issues, so better that the vendors are prepared to have that discussion or think about their price anyway.

Ah, xander, we have a garage!

Well, after much soul-searching over the weekend, we spent some time calling insurance companies for quotes this morning. One refused to quote at all if there's been any historic movement. One quoted six times (SIX FLIPPIN TIMES!) more to insure the property if it had ever had movement, versus not.

The third company we called turned out to be the current insurers, though of course we had no way of knowing this. Lady didn't tell us until we'd given her all the property info and answered all her questions. Anyway, turns out vendor has told them there are no cracks and never been any movement. Think they might be having an interesting conversation with her shortly....more importantly, it 'killed' the idea of the vendor having her insurance company look at (and potentially fix) the issue before we bought it.

Long story short, we decided we don't love this property enough to chase down this rabbit hole throwing money at it, and then paying through the nose for insurance for ever. So we have let the EA know we have withdrawn our offer. She wasn't even remotely surprised, just asked whether we would have proceeded if the vendor had offered to pay for the structural survey - to which we said possibly, as a large part of our initial reluctance was around their lack of any interest in helping us to proceed. But at the end of the day, the result would probably have been the same.

Thanks to all for your comments and for helping me put things into perspective! Now back to the househunting.....

you did the right thing, peace of mind is most important when making such huge decisions.
buying house is not just about the money spent, cos we have to live everyday in the house.

I agree - wise move to check on the insurance. The vendor will need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Well done.

Think the vendor is also going to be having interesting conversations with the estate agent too. Obviously they will never get the price they hope for the house, as anyone else will have the same problem too.

Seems quite weird the insurers owned up they currently insure the property. Does that not breach some data protection rule of some kind, somewhere?

All things considered sounds like a good call on your part

OVienna - it was all a bit awkward. Lady asked dh all the usual questions, then said "have you recently purchased this property? Looks as though we're familiar with it already".

So dh explains we're interested in purchasing it but haven't yet done so. "Anyway, we're calling for quotes as we're concerned about the impact the structural movement will have on the price".

Deathly silence.

"Structural movement, you say?"

.....as I said, awkward.....!

glad you have made a decision...your house is out there waiting!

I had a similar call with the council chap in charge of listings.....
ME: "anyyyyywayyyy, I have done some research and found out the EA are lying through their teeth mistaken about the listing status, I now know it's a Cat A....could you tell me what that will mean"
Council chappie "oh I drive past that every day...Cat A with THOSE terrible replacement windows??, but anyway it's county planning depts problem
ME: "errr no, it's all yours, it's the side of the river and boundary

sharp intake of breath and deathly silence

So, here's an interesting turn of events...

Received a letter in the mail today, from the vendor of the house we withdrew from. She's written a letter of complaint to the surveyor company, saying (in a very long winded 2-page letter) that he doesn't know what he's talking about and that due to his 'inaccurate' report, they lost their buyer (us) and subsequently lost the property they wanted to buy. She doesn't offer any evidence of these 'inaccuracies' - but has clearly taken his comments very much to heart, for example he commented on the poor decorative state of the house (which I would agree with and we had planned and expected to completely redecorate) and she has written a whole paragraph about why this is incorrect and irrelevant to the value of the house.

She also includes a copy of the structural surveyor's report - apparently though they didn't want to know about such a report when we were expected to pay, they went ahead and paid for it themselves after the fact. Oddly, the surveyor says he thinks the crack is OK but they should re-mortar it and then visually monitor it for 3-5 years; if the crack doesn't reopen then he's right and it's fine, if it does reopen then they'll need to get the wall reinforced. Feels a bit like saying "if your car starts in the morning it's fine, but if it doesn't then there's definitely something wrong." Certainly isn't the 'clean bill of health' we'd all like to see, so I'm not sure how our lender would view that report and whether they would have agreed to lend (without some form of conditions to the loan) anyway!

So, she says she just wanted us to have a copy of her complaint. She 'knows we won't change our minds'..... though clearly she hopes we will. House is still on the market, still same price.

We're not interested in revisiting our decision, but it all feels a bit unsettling...we live in a small village and now I'm scared I'm going to run into her in the Post Office or something.

She's clearly an idiot then. Anyone else would have just let you get on with a structural survey instead of behaving so oddly.

I don't really understand the question.

You want a full structural survey and she doesn't want you to do that?
It will be because she is aware of problems in the house and wants to hide them, or she cannot afford to sell at a lower price.

I'd suspect the latter and not waste your money on the survey. Tell the Estate Agents exactly why you are withdrawing. The EA sounds rather unprofessional.

How on earth did she get your personal address? I am trying to remember if when we were selling last year I had the buyers' address on documentation, prior to starting any proper negotiations. Did she know you locally? Creepy.

OVienna - I'm not sure, I can't recall whether our details are shown on the confirmation of offer letter or something? We don't know her but this is a small place and it's perfectly possible she knows someone who knows us, etc.

Either that, or she's stalking us [hmmm]

When selling our old house the buyers survey came back that the house in the surveyors opinion could collapse at any moment and needed a full structural survey to confirm his findings.
The house in question was a thatched cottage with 7ft thick walls. The structural surveyor cane round at a prohibitive cost to the buyer. He spent most of the time drinking tea and telling me how his business was booming because surveyors no longer wanted to take the risk of putting their name to a report in case it back fired so they called on him.