Fire door in domestic property

[theheatherjane1]

I made the mistake of having a guy from Buildings Control round to sign off some work that it turned out wasn't anything to do with buildings control to start with, and on his way out he informed me that he wouldn't sign anything off until I'd replaced my lovely original kitchen door with a fire door.
Hmmm.
Does anyone know anything about them? Can I just buy the cheapest one? He only specified which hinges we need.

We're in the process of selling the flat and just trying to tie up loose ends, so doesn't need to be a thing of beauty.

It all rests on whether the probably 1m is 0.9m or 1.01m.
You can't take into account any space beyond the boundary as they can have a lot more window area due to being further away. Or they can build closer in which case they can't have much for the same reason.
You can only take land you don't own into account if you're overlooking somewhere that can't be built eg a river or road.

That's odd as none of the recent loft conversions I've seen have had closers. Maybe my borough has terrible inspectors!

Are you sure you (and others) haven't got a jamb mounted closer?

It doesn't close automatically or anything- it looks like a normal door. Closing but itself would actually be quite handy to keep the dog out!

Lots of people get fed up of them closing and wedge them open or disable the closer.

I thought they changed the rules on closers after 2006 as many people snipped them. Our recent fire door installation has passed inspection and don't have closers. OP it looks as though your kitchen goes straight onto stairwell which is your escape route in event of fire, so if I have read correctly, yes you need a fire door. The doors themselves are cheap - it's the labour that's expensive. Should take someone no longer than a day to install including frames.

When it says stairwell it means a communal stairwell in a property with multiple dwellings e.g. Apartments or a large house divided into flats. Not an ordinary two storey house

If you have ever been in a fire you will know, and very much appreciate, the value of closed, properly installed, fire doors.

If your budget allows, protect all your exit routes, and common fire risk areas, wether it's required or not... because if the worst did happen, when you are trying to get your family out of a burning building you will be so glad you did.

Don't 'just do it' if you are told to. Do it because it saved lives.

Safety first, always.

if you want to add a closer, the "Perko" type (and copies) are very neat, and reasonably easy to fit. They go into the edge of the door on the hinge side, all you see is a tiny bicycle chain.

www.samuel-heath.com/products/product/perko-r1/2267/

the big tube, containing the spring, is not seen because it is pushed into a hole drilled in the edge of the door.

But beware! Retrofitting a "perko" by drilling a hole in a fire door as PJ describes can void its fire safety status. Make sure you chose one with fire test evidence

It's almost like I'm a grown up on this thread

I find that puzzling because the Perko is very widely used on fire doors (my own house has them, fitted from new) and when you recognise them, you see them everywhere.

I found this:
concealeddoorclosers.com/doorclosers/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/R1-R2-R85-perko-perkomatic-concealed-door-closers-brochure.pdf

"Fire approved - BS EN 1634-1:2000 approved for use on halfhour and one-hour fire doors"

(see pages 2 and 3)

I would expect your BCO to have no probs with them.

But I also understood that the requirement for self-closers in ordinary domestic homes had been dropped.

I am clearly not up to date with regs and will have a browse when I have time.

Builders seem to fit standard FD30 doors, linings, hinges, strips and closers out of habit, without much thought, and BCOs probably don't complain.

Under the Construction Products Regulations, all products that fall under the scope of a harmonised standard must be CE Marked if they are to be used on a fire door. Since Perko type closers (others re available!) don't fall under a harmonised standard (it only covers overhead closers), and therefore cannot be CE Marked, they are often deemed unacceptable by BCOs. They shouldn't be though. They are perfectly legal.

What I was trying to say is that cutting any hole in a fire door (in this case to fit a Perko) will have an effect on the smoke and fire rating of the door. In the same way that you wouldn't cut a cat flap in a fire door, you must be careful cutting a hole for new handles, closers etc

TBH I refused to fit fire door because the guidance they gave me specifically said the doors did not need to have closers
and an open fire door is nothing at all.

My sisters loft conversion they got away with the groovy paint on their period doors

and they keep all their doors open too

I just wanted to come back and say thank you for all your great advice and your time, especially you Bitoutofpractice.
Buildings control have (really begrudgingly and without telling us) signed the work off after my very detailed email questioning their reasoning.
I robbed all the info from you and I wanted to say thanks.
We won!

Yay !! I do love a happy ending !!!

Some really good points made on this thread - I don't know if this will be helpful but the company I used to work for used these acoustic doors in their offices and I think they also doubled up as fire doors or at least I hope they did www.iacacoustics.global/acoustic-doors/