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Original poster

Getting deposit back from letting agents

55 replies

Tenantissues2016 · 12/11/2016 13:58

What's the best way to go about this?

We moved out of a property on Friday 28th October. The property was up for sale, and they had an open house viewing on Saturday 29th. Our checking out inventory was then done the following Thursday.

The inventory lists a few things wrong that we are disputing, the main thing being cleaning issues. We spent the whole day Friday cleaning the property, and we did a thorough job.

The inventory says that the hallway needs vacuuming due to light debris, the wooden flooring and skirting boards in the living room have might debris and dust, the kitchen work tops have light debris and the windows are dirty (they were when we moved in but windows weren't mentioned on that inventory)

As they had the open house viewing and possible private appointments inbetween, I've suggested the debris on the floorings must be caused by several people going into the property with shoes on etc, as the debris certainly wasn't there when we left. I've no idea how the worktops and windows are suddenly dirty (the photos they've given do not show this).

They said on Monday they would be speaking to the LL about how much he wants from our deposit. We've still not heard anything, and it's been 2 weeks now. So would it be ok if I started the claims process through the TDS website myself?

OP posts:
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Original poster
Tenantissues2016 · 01/12/2016 13:25

Apparently, because I raised the claim straight away with TDS and did not give the letting agents time to liase with the LL, the case will get thrown out as I haven't taken reasonable steps to resolve this. Is that right?

OP posts:
aginghippy · 01/12/2016 13:33

But you have taken steps, you contacted the agents. Put that in your evidence too. Say you contacted the agents on x date, they said they would respond after speaking to the LL and you never heard back from them.

Hissy · 01/12/2016 13:42

Who said that? The agency?

Not likely.

The evidence you have is going to prove that your checkout was compromised. You handed the keys back, had no access whatsoever and they had loads of people traipsing through the property before they conducted the check out.

Ll/agency have no chance.

Hissy · 01/12/2016 13:46

The other thing is, if the property is sold now, the ll has no need to fix, repair or clean anything

The deposit deductions are to put something right in order to re-let.

If the property is sold, there are no losses incurred by the owner

Have seen this a gazillion times, landlord never wins in this scenario either

Original poster
Tenantissues2016 · 01/12/2016 14:01

I'm attaching some screen shots of the tds dispute. Please can anyone help me word my disagreement better please?

I'll respond to each of their points:

  • Property was clean when we left, but whilst the check out does list some cleaning issues, it doesn't mention dirty carpets. It says the hallway needs some light vacuuming. And of course there's the issue this check out was done 6 days later, and people have been in the house since.
  • The wallpaper was old, peeling, marked and discoloured. It is mentioned on the original inventory that it was peeling around that socket when we moved in.
  • bulbs were missing when we loved in. The halogen underlight has a photo in the inventory of this missing, but other bulbs were recorded as not working in this inventory, and that's because they were missing, although it doesn't explicitly say this.
  • baby gate - the drill marks were already there when we moved in, this is recorded and photographed in the original inventory. We had pressure fitted ones and the only mistake we've made is we've left 1 of the 8 sticky things there by mistake. We didn't do the drilling.

Garage - it's a shed not a garage. And it is full of stuff, as is the attic. We believed this was the landlords. The garden was dull of rubbish and wood from a broken fence when we moved in, so someone came to remove it all, but we didn't ask for the shed stuff to be removed as we were unsure what exactly was in there or who it belonged to. There is no mention of contents of shed on original inventory.

  • professional clean, they cleaned the kitchen floor and 2nd bedroom carpet (but this was too worn for them to do this thoroughly).

As I said they did remove the garden rubbish, and "dealt with the fence", they took the broken wood away and said they kept the old tenants bond for the fence but they never fixed it. Inventory shows broken fence as does check out.

Point 5.) We were not informed that them cleaning the kitchen and bedroom meant we needed to professionally clean when we left. This is also not in our tenancy agreement.

Regarding us "wanting answers", this wasn't the case. We sent a very, very long email detailing why we disagreed with what they said, and asked what would happen regarding getting the deposit back.

The cleanliness of the windows was not mentioned on the original inventory.

Also, we moved out on 28th Oct
Check out done 3rd Nov
We replied that day disputing it
7th they said they were "looking into it"
So we said we may need to go through TDS

We weren't even told what the disputed and undisputed amounts were, so as it had been longer than 10 working days and following the advice here, we just went straight through the tds. So they are saying I haven't been reasonable with trying to sort it through them, and on the tds website it says you need to take steps to sort this out first before going to them :(

Getting deposit back from letting agents
Getting deposit back from letting agents
Getting deposit back from letting agents
OP posts:
Original poster
Tenantissues2016 · 01/12/2016 14:02

Additional screen shots

Getting deposit back from letting agents
Getting deposit back from letting agents
OP posts:
Tenantissues2016 · 01/12/2016 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

aginghippy · 01/12/2016 14:16

Of course the agents are going to say you are being unreasonable. Ignore them. They just want you to shut up and go away.

TDS have invited you to submit evidence, so go ahead and submit when you are ready.

Mirandawest · 01/12/2016 14:37

The agents will try and get all they can, in my experience. And they had plenty of time to talk to the landlord and they know this.

Tenantissues16 · 02/12/2016 12:43

Can screenshots of emails be used as evidence?

bearfishdoodle · 02/12/2016 12:51

They can yes. Send anything you can; emails, photographs of letters, screenshot of the open day advertisement etc.

aginghippy · 02/12/2016 12:55

Yes emails can be used as evidence. I have done that in the past.

Also, I was thinking it would be a good idea to submit a screenshot of the property listing on the agent's website, zoopla or whatever as evidence that the property is up for sale. As pp said, deposit deductions are to put something right in order to re-let.

Tenantissues16 · 02/12/2016 12:57

Thank you. We also made ammendments to the check in inventory. I took photos of all the pages including our comments. However, these aren't date stamped, but I've noted on there the peeling wallpaper etc. So as they are not date stamped, would it be acceptable to take a video of me clicking on the "details" button on the photos (they are on my phone) as the date and time then show up on there, if that makes sense? Then I also have an email that I'll screenshot of them confirming they've received the amended inventory, although the amended one wasn't attached to the email as we handed it in in person.

aginghippy · 02/12/2016 13:01

If you are sending the photos in electronic form, the file they receive will contain the date information.

Svalberg · 02/12/2016 13:15

Put evidence of the Open Day (even if only a RightMove screenshot) rather than just saying there was one (and draw it to the attention of TDS e.g. if it's mentioned in e-mail 4, say that it's mentioned in e-mail 4). And put ALL e-mails from the LA that have anything to do with moving in or out. TDS look at evidence so if you've got some, shove it on there.

Svalberg · 02/12/2016 13:22

Oh, and if they've not mentioned the sticky things for the baby gate, then you don't mention them. If all they've mentioned is the drilled holes, then point out that they were mentioned on the inventory when you moved in.

Tenantissues16 · 02/12/2016 14:16

Ok, thank you very much

Hissy · 02/12/2016 23:07

Landlord can only claim cleaning if the property was professionally cleaned in readiness FOR YOU

I've seen landlords state that a carpet clean a month or 2 before they move out and tenant move in is professional clean to be deducted when not repeated by eventual outgoing tenant - simple open and shut case on that, it has to be an expense they incurred for you specifically when your tenancy starts. Don't worry on any score along these lines, you have the proof needed. You'll win these kinds of points.

Tenantissues16 · 02/12/2016 23:18

It was for us, but a month after we moved in, not in preparation for us. I'm still going through all my emails and gathering all my evidence. I guess it's best to hit them with too much evidence rather than not enough? If I send it before the 2 weeks is up, will they look at it any sooner? When should I expect the undisputed amount back?

bearfishdoodle · 04/12/2016 06:56

I would send everything at once if possible, in as much detail and as clearly explained as possible.

RE: cleaning, unfortunately I've found TDS to be inconsistent in judgement and not forthcoming with replies to complaints.
In my last rental property, the house was cleaned but not professionally when I moved in. I paid for a professional clean on moving out and was told there were several small areas of dust and for that, the landlady was charging me £250 for a clean she would do herself. The agent refused to provide an invoice for this on the grounds that he landlady would undertake the cleaning herself and they awarded her the funds.
Previously I've had amounts deducted by TDS on leaving a property for a nonexistent smell (they gave permission for my dog on the agreement that I would have the carpets professionally cleaned and an insecticide applied - the nebulous smell was the insecticide.)

bearfishdoodle · 04/12/2016 06:59

Tenantissues, personally I'd start with a copy of the original inventory and point out that it remains unsigned by yourself. I'd then show evidence of the open day i.e. that the checkout had not yet been done and you had no access to the property. Then evidence to disputed the deductions for damages you don't agree with, emails etc. Try and keep it clear, concise and in workable sections.

Hissy · 04/12/2016 16:07

Your obligation is to RETURN THE PROPERTY TO THE CONDITION AS DESCRIBED IN THE INVENTORY.

no better... And with allowance for Fair Wear and Tear

Unless they have it specifically in writing that as a result of the cleaning post check in that you have to have the property professionally cleans, you may not have to.

The key here is the original inventory (unsigned is not necessarily relevant) and the clear evidence of the open day between you handing back the keys and the check out.

Hissy · 04/12/2016 16:10

I've voided check outs where landlords have entered before checkout, or when agents have traipsed in. I've also wanted agents of same if they don't allow preserve the tenants condition

Original poster
Tenantissues2016 · 19/01/2017 10:39

Well, they haven't thrown it out based on the check out being invalid.

Today is the day we are meant to have the decision by. At 5.15pm yesterday, they emailed asking for us to resubmit parts of our evidence by 5pm today.

I've sent photos we took of the amended inventory. I then took screen shots of the "info" of the photos - this brings up a black opaque screen with the date and time - I did this to prove when the photos were taken. They are saying they can't see the photos underneath this screen....but they have those photos just as they are too, these ones with the date and time were to prove when they were taken. But they are asking again for the original photos.

They want all the amended inventory on one document, but we never had a copy of the amended inventory, all I have is photos that I took of each individual page. How can I get this all on to one document? I've tried word but it puts the photos sideways.

I'm so crap with technology and I'm dosed up on codeine today so I've not got a clue what I'm doing. They've had all our evidence for over a month, so I can't believe they've only given us 24 hours to get all of this together.

OP posts:
rallytog1 · 19/01/2017 11:37

I would say that if you provided amendments to the inventory and the ll/agent didn't incorporate them, that should be their problem to solve, not yours!

If you want to get them onto one document, I think the best way would be to convert them to pdfs but you would need to have the right software for that on your computer.

Is there a number you can give them a ring on?