Things I have learnt from having builders in the house

[Swimminguphill]

1. The way we choose builders is insane: in any other area of my life I only commission things I actually know about - so when I interview people I actually know what they are talking about and CB get a sense of whether they can do the job. With builders you basically go on a) whether they seem nice and b) whether other people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about think they have done a good job

1. Buying building work is nothing like buying anything else. When I go to the supermarket I say "I'll have a chicken please" and they give me a chicken and tell me the price and I leave the shop with a chicken. When buying building work there is a complicated game of nerves where you try to 'buy a chicken' and they attempt to sell you a sack of shit and pretend it's a chicken and you have to refuse to pay until they produce said chicken, or something roughly resembling a chicken because you're so fucking tired you don't even care any more

1. Your building inspector needs to be goooood. A building inspector needs to be as good as Poirot and Miss Marple and Sherlock Holmes all rolled into one. He needs to be able to piece together a small bit of mortar, an uncannily cold breeze blowing from the south west and a shifty look from your builder at 100 paces and figure out you don't actually have a vertical DPC in your window opening even though it's been plaster boarded already. If you have a good building inspector you will cling to him like Kate Winslet does to that wooden door at the end of titanic.

1. You need to learn all kinds of shit you never ever thought you'd learn like how to build a fucking cavity wall correctly, what the correct spacing for wall ties is, what a damp proof course looks like and all the places you need to put one (up your builder's bum will be tempting) and what a cold bridge and black jacking is.

1. You will learn that your builder may be a human being with as much dignity and tight to be treated with respect as you but he is also trying to swindle you all the fucking time. So don't make him tea, don't ask how his weekend was, don't enter into conversations that last longer than 2 sentences on either side. Don't argue - if you start arguing they have won. Just refer them to your building inspector's latest email/letter.

1. You will be more tired than you have ever been. You will wake up at 1 am worrying about the next terrible thing your builder will do but you shouldn't. No one has died, it will all end eventually and nothing is worth this much angst.

Anything else to add?

I've learned that if you find a good, reliable, recommended, conscientious builder stick with him even if you are tempted to go with a cheaper one.

Haha hobbit . My builder (who is a friend of ours ) is going gluten and dairy free because of his bung stomach. Actually it's the Chinese takeaway and Fish and Chips you have each day that's stuffing you up.

whathefox how did you go about finding your project manager? We've had a quote from one and whilst I never thought it would be cheap I'm a bit

My parents had their house totally redone and the bulders were lying con man bastards.

We had a project manager - who was unfortunately about as useless as a chocolate tea pot and never challenged the builders.

The site manager was a lazy lying bastard who lied to everyone face. Swearing blind something had been done when it hadn't even after my parents made him and the project manager go out and inspect - and obviously it hadn't been done.

The building company hadn't been paying the suppliers or workmen so my parents ended having to pay 2x for things just to get them done.

Obviously the good workmen who had been employed all fucked off, and complete and utter retards that had no business doing complicated plumbing and electrics were got on site.

Really horrible experience.

Just the absolute lies I don't understand. At every opportunity they would do things not to spec and not to bloody building regs and lie about it!

If I ever have a midlife crises and turn to a life of crime, I'm going to get people ot go round and break the building co's owners legs and arms. Oh, and his wife who lied about everything. And the site foreman.

They are still trading - under a different name .

Employ a good project manager - well worth the money, will actually save you ££ in the long run. We couldn't have done it any other way and kept our sanity....

swimming

Dolly - pls can u pm me the name of your sash window chap? I need 23 for a job....

I can confirm that after years of building works you do get more confident at sacking builders off the job. And plumbers. Especially plumbers. Only yesterday the new plumber I am trying out on a large project was annoyed because he needed to advise me that there was something that 'was 50% his fault'. "What is it I asked?" "The sink you bought doesn't fit the pipe work". He replied.

Now at this point dear reader I should inform you that most plumbers are fecking obsessed with awful contract pedestal sinks. This is because no skill in measuring pipe work to any degree in accuracy is required and if you a) don't bother to measure where the pipe work should go or b) can't be arsed to measure pipe work placement it doesn't matter. The sink in question is wall hung. For small bathrooms this creates an illusion of a larger space. The said sink had already failed to make it into the first bathroom ( this is a 3 apartment renovation) owing to the " whoops didn't realise you'd want something fancy installing" conversation. For the second bathroom I left the sink in the space from before the point of first fix. No excuse as to why the sink can't / won't fit but apparently it is only 50% his fault it can't go into the 3rd bathroom as the sink there is already fitted and is twice as wide for the space. " don't suppose you could buy a pedestal sink could you" he asked hopefully as we both surveyed the height at which said sink would have to be installed to fit (roughly the same height as the kids hand wash basin basin in a motorway service station/Ikea )

"No" I said. Tbc....

Don't even get me started on the toilet paper and sugar. Our house literally has no sugar left in it. Now I wouldn't even dream of making them tea any more it's not a problem.

My DH always has a job on the go when the builders, electricians are here. He has made a front door, plastered walls, put a radiator on etc this definitely helps and we have never had any trouble getting stuff done. If you know nothing you will get nothing. He has a very pen- pushy type job so to begin with tradesfolk think lets take the piss. It really is important to know a little bit about your house and how it's built and also a bit of technical stuff - for example: you need to spray mortar with water whilst it's setting.

tatlerer our project manager was found through word of mouth. She's very expensive though. However, by the end of the job she had filled several lever arch files with paperwork pertaining to our house, sent thousands of emails, attended hundreds of meetings on our behalf and basically organised all the trades and contractors and settled all disputes. I would never have had the time with a full time job and kids to do even 1% of the work she did.

Forgot to add, I always found that our project manager was on our side, you know? She never sided with the contractors. Otherwise I would have felt it was clueless me against a whole bunch of professionals who may or may not be kosher.

yellodraw

Can't believe your project manger, that's bloody disgraceful! Our PM went on site at least twice a week, or any time we asked her, sent us summaries of the work, inspected everything, made sure building reg was happy and only then did we pay the builder. She had a tight rein on the finances so we always knew when we were veering off budget. Our builders weren't cowboys either. I still found it all v stressful even though it went to plan!

swimming yeah they're lucky you're not spitting in their tea....

The first plumber we used was utterly useless. Kept coming to me with a problem he had found and staring at me dumbfoundedly until I asked what he suggested. It was discovered later he had put all the bloody hot and cold the wrong way around! Surely basic plumbing 101!? I couldnt wait for him to fuck off by the end with his darth vadar breathing.

The (significantly better) fitters I had for the kitchen thought the cupboard upstairs had been cut with a spoon. Nope, that was just the useless arse plumber who assured me he could easily modify the built in cupboard.

The kitchen fitters were fab. Brought their own kettle to do their tea, tidied each day at the end. Had their own vacuum, just generally nice blokes and when I had a problem twice (first time we smelled gas the morning after kitchen was finished, second pipe under sink came off and flooded the kitchen months later) the main fitter came straight out, fixed it and couldn't apologise enough. I will definitely be getting them back for our downstairs shower room. I'm just glad the useless one did the upstairs bathroom that doesn't get used as much as the downstairs one. It looks nice (because DH did the tiling and decorating) but I always see the crappy arse cupboard and the fitted toilet seat that is too small, and cannot be changed without taking the whole unit out. Useless plumber did not think to tell us the wrong seat was sent before he fitted it, and he didn't even fit it on properly so it's now worked it's way almost completely loose and we can't fix it back on!

Thanks whatthefox. Is she more or less than £14K? That's what I've been quoted. We'll pay it for all the benefits and reasons you describe but just wondering if it's market rate. The renovation will be 9 months in duration.

Hi tatlerer, I think for a 9 month build she would be around £30k (she works on monthly fee so could be more if you overrun) so yours looks like a much more economical choice! If it's a good PM it'll be worth it.

Thanks whatthefox. In that case, I'm sold! He has a very good reputation locally here and it's a fixed fee so no worries if the build overruns. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

We had very decent builders: proper detailed quote, always turned up, rectified past bodges in the house as they went along and the finished result was a good one.

Probably helped that my niece's partner works for them though, and they weren't the cheapest.

Having a really bad day today. Fucking window fitters who are from Fabco Sanctuary fitted the Windows wrong first time round so have had to come and refit and have got the MAJOR attitude on them. Demanded coffee and then used my microwave without asking and then trod dust all over my floor which hasn't been dust sheeted all over because of my lazy are builders. I was on the verge of tears because it's not just the shit workmanship and huge sums of money it's that you feel abused & disrespected in your own house and there's nothing I can do about it. Particularly with the window company because they hVe been paid upfront so if I get into a stand up argument they can just sack off the job no problem.