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Original poster

Deposit protection scheme - how fair are they?

69 replies

Thewolfsjustapuppy · 27/07/2016 21:00

I'm probably over thinking this.
We recently vacated the rental house that we were living in for 18 months. It was a very nice house that was let while the owner was abroad. The rent was very high for the region so the deposit was also quite sizeable. When we moved in the house was in very good clean condition, not pristine but very good.
When we left we had the place professionally cleaned and replaced one of the doors as it had been damaged, there were some very minor scuff marks on the walls and some minor scratches on the metal fridge freezer doors also there was some dust as we had left the house when the carpenter fitted the door so although it was fitted perfectly he hadn't hoovered up the dust.

Anyway, we thought that the inspection was going to be held last Monday but we noticed that the owners had moved in over the weekend, when we went for the inspection we were told that it had happened on Saturday, supposedly before they moved back in. The EA had no idea of this change of plan either.

Now the owner is making a big deal about the scratches on the fridge freezer, dust and wall scuffs. My thought process is that the scuffs are normal wear and tear, the dust is, well, just dust and the fridge freezer is of a type that scratches very, very easily - there were some marks on it when we moved in and admittedly there are a few more but it would not actually be possible to use the thing without some wear and tear.

The owner is quite an influential local business man who we do not want to fall out with but I do not want to lose our deposit for what I do believe is fair wear and tear. I am prepared to argue our cause but I have been screwed in the past (pre DPS) by landlords over deposits so I am a bit sceptical.

Can I count on the DPS being fair?

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 29/07/2016 14:18

OK: I am an inventory clerk... if I had done the check out I wouldhave noted the items you list something like this:

Most of that is fair wear and tear.

The rawl plugs, most of the scratches on the fridge/freezer would also be as inventory, additional ones could be charged to tenant if there were good pictures before and after.. you wouldn't pay for a replacement door, but you could be aksed to pay for a contribution that would deend n thage of the FF when you move in - that would be in tens of pounds, no more.

Dust and cooker/hob - tenant cleaning charge, price dependent on whethr it was professinally cleaned when you moved in... tens of pounds

ANything noted aon the invenotry and/or check in rp

Scuffs to wall - tenant mainteance charge - tens of pounds, again depending on how ild the decor eas when you moved in - NOT RELACEMENT or REDECORATION

Other things that are in the inventory and check in reports are nothing to do with you - Landlord maintenance issue

HOWEVER.... if they moved back in before the Check Out was complet then I would have to abandon the Check Out, as I could not tell what issues where there before they mved their furniture etc back in. All costs to landlord, tough!!!

TDS will look on that very poorly and, whilst they may get some tens of pounds for cleaning they probably won't be lucky with anything else.

So dispute everything that is on the inventory and check in in detail... then add that you consider everything else to be hard to allocate as the LL moved his possessions back in prior to formal check out!

Good luck!

OurBlanche · 29/07/2016 14:19

Crikey that was badly written Smile

ANything noted aon the invenotry and/or check in rp

Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 14:21

The check out time was changed without our knowledge, the landlord had the key and was there for check out and as far as I know moved in directly after it happened (the report does say that house was not furnished.) We are not happy about this but prepared to accept the report in light of everything else the landlord is now trying to charge us for.
I am checking with my home insurance to see if they will cover the damage to the fridge - it is a 15cm square of scratches that they are complaining about, cosmetic damage not in anyway effecting the performance of the fridge. (This is probably the most expensive fridge that John Lewis have on the market even though it is over 6yrs old).

OP posts:
maddiesparks · 29/07/2016 14:26

The last two houses we rented before we bought our house we had these kinds of problems with our landlords. My experience in the past with professional landlords was that they expect reasonable wear and tear and would expect to redecorate or recarpet every few years as standard and not expect the tenants to fund that through their deposits. But our last two landlords were actually only renting to us while they were trying to sell their houses and they made a fuss over the smallest things. The kind of things you have mentioned. We had the houses professionally cleaned and all wall marks painted over professionally etc but they still wanted some deposit money. The DPS Turned both of them down unequivocally and we won the case on both occasions. In other words you will be fine if it's just general wear and tear. Unfortunately it can take a long time - it was over 10 months for the last house we rented.

OurBlanche · 29/07/2016 14:26

Fridge freezers have a longish life expectancy... 15 years on average!

So.. a replacement door for mine is about £100

So... 100/15 = £6.66 per year
9 years of life left = 9 x 6.66 = £60 tenant charge.

OurBlanche · 29/07/2016 14:27

That is worst case scnario, as you already have proof that there were some scratches noted on inventory and check in!

Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 14:29

Thanks OurBlanche, tens of pounds we will accept, thousands not so much.
The house was professionally cleaned when we moved in and we had it professionally cleaned when we left, receipts etc have been provided. The dust, unfortunately, happened after the clean due to the door hanging (again professionally done just unfortunately not sealed, my error.)

OP posts:
BumbleNova · 29/07/2016 14:32

definitely take them to the arbitrator. set out your case as clearly as you can, item by item and make sure you include proof (eg photos). Ive won a couple of deposit disputes. I refuse to let down right dishonest landlords help themselves to my hard earned money. its not an insurance policy, its your property until proved otherwise. good luck!

Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 14:33

I'm kicking myself for not doing the painting as there are even spare paint tins in the shed.
Its been a frantic month what with buying, moving, cleaning, finances.

OP posts:
Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 15:02

I have just looked closely at the check in report again, there are no photos of the fridge doors but it does state that there are light scratches to the stainless steel doors.
There are also no photos of the raw plugs in the walls but again they are mentioned.
I'm kicking myself for not taking any photos myself.

OP posts:
MackerelOfFact · 29/07/2016 15:12

Was check out performed before the end of your tenancy in that case? If so, could you counter-charge for the amount of rent you paid for the time between check out and the end of the tenancy?

It's bloody cheeky for the LL to suddenly decide he is taking back possession during your rental period, even if you'd moved out - for all he knew you could have still planned to come back to make good the final few issues.

Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 15:19

The last day of our tenancy was Sunday 24th, we handed the keys back on Friday 22nd for convenience. Check out happened on Saturday 23rd (we were under the impression it was going to be Monday 25th.) We actually don't know if they moved in on Saturday or Sunday but did notice activity at the house over the weekend. We only moved a few hundred meters over the road.

Funnily enough the LL did offer to take possession two weeks before the end of the agreement and let us off the utilities for that period, ha! We said no problem if he gave us back two weeks rent (over £800) he declined so we made him wait the two weeks and got on with the cleaning and door hanging in our own time.

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 29/07/2016 15:20

Legally, it's up to your landlord to prove that you caused damage to the property. If they don't have a detailed inventory and photos from the start and end of your tenancy, providing that there is damage beyond fair wear and tear, they can't deduct anything from your tenancy deposit.

I suggest that you refuse to pay anything and raise a dispute with the Deposit Protection Scheme. The non-disputed amount will be refunded to you straight away. They will then review the evidence and will probably rule in your favour, unless there is any the landlord can prove (which sounds unlikely).

Shelter has very good info/advice on this:
m.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_deposits/getting_your_deposit_back

NameChange30 · 29/07/2016 15:21

proving not providing!

Mirandawest · 29/07/2016 15:26

I had troubles with return of deposit. Deposit was £925 and letting agent wanted to take £900. Some for spurious reasons; some not. I said I would take it to the dispute service but we settled on £160 deduction. Was blooming hard and the letting agents belittled me at every stage. At least I know I will never rent or buy from them again.

MackerelOfFact · 29/07/2016 15:33

Ah so you'd already handed the keys back. That's annoying, otherwise I would have just said you'd planned to do the remaining cleaning and repairs on Sunday but they didn't give you a chance because they moved the check to Saturday without checking with you.

Obviously that won't stand if you'd already handed the keys back though as you wouldn't have been able to get in anyway!

cansu · 29/07/2016 15:38

I have used them. The landlord wanted all of our deposit and when we put in to the DPS she hired a solicitor and asked for several thousand basically wanting us to pay for entire redecoration when house hadn't been decorated in ten years! in the end she got about 150.00 for cleaning out of an 800.00 deposit which I was miffed about as we had cleaned and the house was filthy when we moved in but I still regard it as a good result. It cost her loads of money in hiring a solicitor and I think she simply expected to get her own way if she threw her money around!

OurBlanche · 29/07/2016 16:32

Don't worry about the lack of pictures... they are there to support the written report, they are not the be all and end all. TDS has recently stated that it gives more weight to the wording and uses pictures for clarification only.

But do mention it to the agent! They may want to take steps, especially if the reports were done in house!

Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 16:42

Which bit do I mention to the agent? The fact that the Check in report mentions scratches on the fridge or the fact that there are no pictures to support it? There are photos of the scratches on the check out report (they make them look massive and bad but they really are not in real life).
I thought the reports are independent? The EA didn't seem to know about the change in time for the check out inspection.

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 29/07/2016 16:50

Personally I think you should bypass the agent and just go straight to the DPS.

OurBlanche · 29/07/2016 17:27

Sorry, that was a bit confusing... once you have gone through the TDS and got all the disputed monies back Smile

... write to the agent mention the disparity between words and pictures on the 2 reports and how it made your issues harder than they needed to be to get resolved...

Or not, as you will probably be heartily sick of the whole thing once you have managed to get the LL to wind his neck in got your money back Smile

OurBlanche · 29/07/2016 17:30

Not all reports are independent, some LLs and LAs prefer to do them themselves.

I think that is a bad idea as a) it would do me out of a job Smile and b) is often better with a good independent clerk - though I do know some awful clerks who seem to have no eye for detail Smile

Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 17:39

Thanks OurBlanch. I'm already sick of it and its less than a week.
I have already told the EA and LL to stop sending us photos and invoices, if its not on the official reports I'm not interested in discussing it and it is not relevant. I have told them its all going to the DPS to sort out. I think they are still chuntering away but I have started to just hide the emails.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 29/07/2016 18:17

I agree with Blanche. I use a good firm of independent (and insured) inventory clerks. Even if the Agent puts pressure on me to use theirs. I find that a detailed and fair inventory reassures the tenant, but also alerts them to the fact that the check out will be equally thorough.

I have a new TDS problem. I just had a tenant who did a flit. He left after a month so only paid his initial rent and deposit, leaving me severely out of pocket. I think he failed his work probation in London so has disappeared back off to Europe where he was working before.

I have a solid claim on the deposit. The problem is that he is not replying to anything, and the agent say that if he does not agree to the (reasonable) deductions I have to wait 90 days to get any money. Its quite a lot of money. 90 days seems a long time.

Original poster
Thewolfsjustapuppy · 29/07/2016 20:45

Is TDS the same as DPS? I'm assuming Tenant deposit service.
That is frustrating for you Needmoresleep, at least you will get it though.

I have emailed the EA to ask for the deposit ID but they are now being painfully slow. I can't find it on any of the contracts or inventory reports, is there another way of finding it?

I really do appreciate all the advice and encouragement I have received, you are keeping me calm, all of you Smile

OP posts: