Does this cost for an extension sound reasonable to you??

[shovetheholly]

I am very inexperienced at building work! I have first estimate of builders' costs for a modernist single-storey extension (with upper floor bay addition).

Please can you help me with 3 questions:

1. What does '2nd fix' mean in the phrase 'Finished internally to plastering with electrics/plumbing & joinery 2nd fix'. Does that mean this quote doesn't include electrics, plumbing or joinery?

1. Is the cost reasonable? Area is 3 metres high, 6 metres wide, 4 metres deep and house is in Yorkshire. There will be a large expanse of glass along the new back of the building, and a long skylight, which will add to the cost. Construction is going to be timber-framed. Quote covers: foundations, walls with painted brickwork, cedar cladding; aluminium windows & bay (to existing upper floor window to extend this out); green Roof on a GRP Flat roof system; split level internal with a knock through to external wall; finishing internally to plastering with electrics/plumbing & joinery 2nd fix (whatever that means)

= £37k.

1. If plumbing and electrics aren't included, how much extra will they and decorating be? The area will be a kitchen - from Ikea, so I guess I need to budget that in as well??

namechanged said " some of those costings are for things you wouldn't ordinarily expect to get back in any case"

That's exactly what I'm struggling with. The hall has areas of raw plaster, and areas with huge holes in the plaster (not exaggerating) and a plastic brown carpet that must go back to the 80s. It needs redoing whatever. The staircase has spindles that have somehow been splintered so they're actually half-spindles with a really rough edge. (It's an ex-rental house, but I can't even imagine how someone actually DID that?! ) The boiler needs replacing anyway because it takes about 5 minutes to get hot water upstairs and there is no way of controlling it - it is off or on and no timer or anything like that. The current kitchen is absolutely falling to pieces so we need a new one in any case.

Do I consider these 'costs of the extension' or 'things I need to buy that I won't necessarily recoup'?

Aaaaaaiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeee! I am so new to owning my own house. I really don't have a clue and this stuff makes me feel anxious!! I really, really appreciate you all taking the time out to help me. I am listening to every word you all have to say and weighing it up in my mind.

Those aren't extension costs then, they're general household maintenance.

I think it's good to get as much work as possible done in one go as it 's so wearing having your house in chaos while workmen are in, but you need to separate the finances in your head.

I am confused .

How do you decide what are the extension costs and what are the maintenance costs??

Are the extension costs just the shell??

This is what I'm struggling with. We bought the house at 165 and it is already worth 195. If I spend 45k on the shell, that means I only need the extension to add 15k to ensure that the money I spend = the money I get out. It will definitely do that, I am sure of it! But then what happens to the other 40k??!

(I am not interested really in making money on my house, I just don't want to throw lots of money away, IYSWIM).

If the house that sold for £195k was in a better condition than yours ie, new kitchen, hallway etc then your would likely not achieve that price anyway.

Equally if you've had it for 8 years and not spent any money on it then you've had a cheap few years maintenance wise and are just taking a big hit now.

It might make sense to work out what it would cost to do the maintenance required ie kitchen/ hallway/ bolier without the extension (not saying you'd actually choose to do this) then deduct that from the total cost of the full extension project and class that as the 'extension cost'.

The biggest issue is the proportion of your house value that the extention is going to cost. It's looking liking to be nearly half what you paid so needs a massive increase in house value to ever recover it.

Extensions cost a bit more in London so a similar project might cost £100k but if that house was originally say £400k it represents a much smaller proportion of the total house value and is more likely to be recovered in a future house sale.

We looked into doing something similar but the costs just didn't add up, we'd have ended up with a house that owed us more than the street prices were ever likely to achieve.

As bearbehind says, what condition was your neighbour's house ? Don't want to confuse matters further is what you've described the only option for the extension or could something else be done by moving the layout a bit plus extending but not as much ?

I had my house valued a short while back at 185k, so you are right that there is a price to the kitchen and hall not being sorted out! The valuer said that if we just put in a better kitchen/sorted the hall it'd be the same, 190-195k.

We have done work in all the other rooms, and I think they are probably in a better state overall than the neighbour's - we've done things like putting in a log burner for instance.

We could definitely do something else with the house! There are loads of options in terms of extending. What the architects have come up with is really very high end.

However there's definitely a personal and emotional dimension to this that is making me feel less than rational. Coping with infertility that we've discovered can't be remedied, plus being anchored here for longer than I thought, plus the fact that I'll be 40 in 18 months are surely playing a role in this decision! While I'm very far from miserable, I feel the need at the moment to have somewhere that I belong. I can't even begin to afford the properties in the city that I do like, and I honestly hand-on-heart don't want anything that is on the market in my price range. Am I treating my house too much like personal therapy??! Am I burdening it with way too much meaning, in a way I'll regret in future?

(I am so grateful to you all for advice - I really don't trust my judgement at the moment and it is very greatly appreciated!)

(I just realised something else. In addition to those things, I do slightly miss London and the area of the south-east I grew up in. I love the modern look of many London extensions, and I think part of me all along has been trying to recreate that for myself here. I realise this makes me sound really crazy! It's not that I want to move back - I couldn't afford to anyway - more than I have a hankering for that aesthetic, and it's something I never see around me these days).

God, I sound like I'm having a nervous breakdown. I'm not, I promise!! This time last year I was in a really bad place but now I feel a lot more strong mentally than I have done for a while! Partly thanks to lovely people like sugarplum in the gardening forum.

Firstly it does sound as though its not just the house but I think lots of people have been in a position (me included) where you need "a project" or something to keep you focused, rather than focusing on some negative aspect of your life.

It is really hard but I do think you need to pull yourself back in sometimes. There was a thread on here the other day asking whether you'd spent £30-£40k on a kitchen. There were people saying "that's half the value of my house" or implying that if you had a valuable house (maybe upwards of £500k), its probably what people would expect. I think you do have to keep in mind the value of your house.

With your objective head on, I think you need to consider the following :

1. do you think people would pay a premium to live in your house (with an architect designed extension) in your area? Or would they rather have a house in the better postcode?
2. If you didn't make any money on the improvements, would that worry you?
3. If you did all the improvements you want, and don't worry about adding value, would you be happy in the house?

I know what you mean about the amazing modern spaces, have you seen any of the series Ugly House - George Clark gets his architect friends to re-design "normal" houses. They do look amazing afterwards, and house envy but they often come in at much more than the family ever anticipated. The families love them and I can see why they are so much more impressive than a standard extension but there is a financial "hit" I think.

Maybe think of the money you are spending as making your lives better for at least 10 years. Why wait to live in a lovely home.

Also remember if you moved house now to get a bigger house all fees/stamp duty/estate agents costs would be 10-15 grand.

Thanks boodles. Good point about stamp duty, I hadn't considered that.

namechanged - that is really good advice, thank you. And I think I was one of the people saying 'You could have an amazing holiday instead of spending 30k on a kitchen'!!

My answers to your questions are:

1. The right couple probably would. The few houses with modernist extensions do sell at a premium. But I suspect the downside of that is that I would be significantly restricting my market. It is not going to be your average family home, and that is both a huge advantage while we live here and potentially a large disadvantage when selling.
2. I don't want to make money but I want to get out what I've put in. It would worry me if I spent 20k and the house wasn't worth 20k more... ditto for 70k.
3. Yes, I LOVE the design. But I am not unhappy now and I think I am being a bit spoiled. Without going all armchair counselling on you, I was homeless for the best part of a year as a teen, living rough in a tent, and it was utterly miserable. I think I have quite a weird relationship to 'home' as a result. While I never take it for granted, I struggle to feel like I 'deserve' a nice place and I feel really princessey saying 'I would really like this'. It makes it hard to trust my judgement. So I am utterly torn and confused and really quite in a state about the decision! I feel like a kid who just doesn't know what the 'right' thing to do is. DH, on the other hand, is absolutely sick of living with the house in the state it's in and really wants to get on with these plans. It's me holding things up.

You know what, sounds like you deserve a lovely house. Its not always about the numbers, its going to be your home .

Life is short and our relationship with houses is often about far more than bricks and mortar. If you took the view that you could have an amazing holiday for 30k on the kitchen thread it shows you value experiences. The extension will change your house and your experience of living there so if you didn't recoup everything you put in when selling, would you be ok looking at anything not regained in the same terms as money spent on a holiday ie. The experience ?

Sometimes it isn't about doing the 'right' thing but the right thing for you. I'd go ahead and do it but would ask around and get another 3 or 4 builder recommendations first plus more quotes then be very involved in it and source as much of the materials as you can, really shopping around to get the best deal. Did you see the 100k house tricks of the trade recently? Some of the people on there did some good things on a budget . Do spend on the boiler though, Worcester Bosch or Vailant.

The gardening lot are my sanity too and I find a good house or garden project very therapeutic too. I think I may have lost the plot this time though as I'm kind of considering project managing the extension if we do it, might be biting off more than I can chew !

namechanged - just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to talk to me about this. You've been full of excellent, sensible advice.

Oh sugarplum you will be absolutely fine project managing an extension. You really will. You seem so utterly organised!! Plus, being a gardener, you are used to planning ahead!

I think you are right about getting good deals. I need to sit down and have a long hard and unsentimental think about whether there are elements of the design that I can sensibly cut back on without really wrecking the whole thing. Do I really need a green roof, for instance? I love the idea, but how much is it adding to the cost? Also, I can buy the really well-rated Whirlpool hob that Which? recommend for £300 instead of spending twice that on a fancier larger one. I think I can cut my appliance budget almost in half by making different choices like this, and reusing some of the things I already have. I also found out that it is sometimes cheaper to buy TWO good-quality single ovens than ONE double. Why on earth would that be??! I am sure that I can get flooring cheaper if I shop around too.

I think I do need to get the cost down, but that I may go ahead with it if it's, say, 60k rather than 80k. I realise it might not be the most financially sensible thing to do. From an investment perspective, I'm actually cancelling out the 'gain' of house price rises in my area!! But there are so many benefits to doing it in lifestyle terms.

Thank you Shove - I do try on the organisation front, it works sometimes and fails other times ! We need to raise the money first so will have to see what happens.

That sounds very sensible thinking it through like that. If you ditch the green roof what about making a bin store or something with one on , or maybe a shed - that way you still have one somewhere. I bookmarked this site for paving recently and have noticed they have a fairly regular turnover so worth keeping an eye on. Strange with the two ovens v one big one but that's exactly the sort of thing. Local to us is someone who sells lights to places like John Lewis so good quality fittings at half price, you may well find someone similar with say flooring local to you. Ask around people who have renovated recently. Do you have InExcess up by you ? I've seen very good prices on Dulux paint before. We should probably start a thread like the gardening bargains thread but for house materials. Hot ukdeals worth keeping an eye on too.

Spreadsheets are your friend with this, write everything down as you think of it. I think you'll really enjoy doing this extension and making it blend into your garden, I'll look forward to the pictures if you do it

it is easy to get nervous about spending large sums of money on your home. I know, I spent about 95,000 on mine last year. I did have a few crisis about spending that during the build. I was in a similar sized home to you with a similar value. We had loads done (loft room/ensuite, rear extension, new kitchen with appliances, boiler, driveway, patio, all internal doors replaced to oak, new oak stair parts, new double glazing throughout, downstairs loo)

I think now that over the year with all the house price increases etc in our area we would just about make our money back if we were to sell now (possibly a little down, however when we started this I did assume we would be 30,000 down if we were to sell straight away). It was hard however I had to just think about the family benefits, lovely lovely family room, a large bedroom for everyone living here, two bathrooms (how much easier in the mornings!)

Like you we will be here for at least 10 years, maybe forever now as I love my home as it is. So I just think the money was worth spending to have a home to love and enjoy for all the family.

All the best with whatever you decide.

Oh shove you've given me such excellent advice for my garden and allotment I really wish I could give you solid advice on your house, but there are others on this thread who are far better positioned to help. I am a firm in believer in that if you give, you receive. I, and my not quite rooting lavender cuttings but any day now, wish you the best.

didireally -Oh, you are so lovely! And I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your lavenders!!

boodles - you are a bit of a heroine to me now. Did you add an extra bedroom for that? I think part of my concern is that my plans only involve a slight increase to the size of one bedroom, and not an extra room, which definitely would add value (due to planning constraints/hipped roof/ not wanting to cut out all light from our lovely neighbours, this is difficult for us to do).

I'm also TERRIBLE at making big life decisions, esp if they involve money! I am having lots of sleepless nights over this. It's so stupid. So many people in the world are facing real dilemmas and here I am absolutely stewing over such a first world problem.