Vendors not allowing workmen over to give quotes

[ThePartyArtist]

DH and I are first time buyers. We've had a cash offer accepted, then got a survey done. The survey indicates the roof needs major work, and the cavity walls need inspecting by a cavity wall company because they may have problems. So we've gone back to estate agent, said we want to get tradesmen out to do quotes. We haven't mentioned yet that we will be knocking this amount off our offer to see if we can pay less to the vendors, to allow us to afford to get the work done.

The estate agent has been slightly obstructive about arranging for these workmen to get in. They agreed to let the cavity wall people come over because their inspection is all external. However they are now saying the vendors won't allow the cavity wall people to drill into the wall. I have told estate agent that they'll do 4 holes per wall (so total of 8 holes) and will make them good before they leave - so no damage to the house. I don't know if the agent hasn't properly explained to the vendors why we want to do this. What do I do? Feels like a battle to just get the quotes done and am beginning to give up on it!

I'm going to go against the tide and say ... you're not really BU.

Our survey for this house mentioned a problem with a roof - quite straightforward, but could be £££ if needed scaffolding. We got a quote. The cost of repair was minimal, so we didn't worry about it.

I have a friend who agreed to (I think probably fairly invasive) tests to her period property. These resulted in a price reduction. But she felt she could refuse, as another buyer's survey would most likely ask for the same tests.

If you are paying a premium for a house that doesn't need work (and having experience knocking walls down, I'm the last to criticise that!!) then you do want to be certain it doesn't need money spending on it.

Can you find out more about what drilling needs to be done? Is it just a small hole, or something brick-sized? How much will it cost to fix what might be wrong with the walls?

You haven't answered wowfudge's question about what the survey said about value. If the survey said words to the effect that cavity walls and roof need looking at but we'd still value it as X (maybe with a caveat saying this is the top end of the range of values etc) then your vendors are going to be reluctant to re-negotiate the price.

If the survey says that the value of the house is less than your offer, then tell the estate agent and on the basis that you made your offer subject to survey, then say you will be reducing your offer but needs a roofing specialist to look at it in order to quantify the reduction. The vendor can however still say no.

In respect of the cavity walls, no sane vendor (irrespective of anything raised in the report) would allow you to drill holes in their property. The estate agent and everyone else should be telling you that its an unreasonable request. As someone up thread said, the company may do a bad job, you may pull out for whatever reason leaving a damaged property and little redress for the vendor. You need to get a quote based on the surveyor's report or a visual inspection if this is something you want to pursue.

I can't imagine anyone allowing invasive surveys on the property prior to exchange- I'm surprised you're surprised by that.

I agree with the PP about many first time buyers being a PITA as they seem to think it's tit for tat in terms of offsetting the entire costs of all survey results with price paid- it just doesn't work like that.

When we sold it was to FTB and they started off by saying they were having every survey under the sun- we made it were clear that that was absolutely fine but that we wouldn't be budging on price no matter what the survey threw up (known issues had been disclosed to them).

We were fortunate as someone else desperately wanted the house but couldn't proceed so we had a back up but we still wouldn't have been effectively blackmailed over every potential cost highlighted in a survey.

It's fine to request access for a non-invasive survey/ quote and equally it's fine for them to refuse, anything in between is about negotiation and ultimately who has the upper hand in terms of bargaining power which depends very much on the vendors need to sell and other interested parties.

Sorry I may not have explained this properly.
The cavity wall drilling is not only for a quote - it's to find out if work is needed and to what extent. The survey noticed cracks which indicate damage to the walls but without someone drilling in they can't do a report on whether there is damage. This kind of work can be hugely expensive so it would be foolish to go ahead buying not knowing whether it's needed or not. And I think any other buyer would find the same in their survey and request the same.

I wouldn't agree to this either. What damage to the walls are you looking for btw?

I would say you've got the survey results, you know work might need to be done, now get on with it if you are going to buy.

I disagree that any other buyer would do the same. I think checking things is reasonable but only if something really obvious is amiss, after the survey is done that's usually the end of it.

I have gone through the buying and selling process only twice but I can't imagine allowing someone to drill holes in my wall.

Also, I refused a buyer request to have a quote done re electrics. I told her the fuse box was there, open for her inspection, she could see it was flipping ancient and if she wanted the whole place rewired, I wasn't going to knock off that cost anyway because it was an open fact and the price had already accounted for it. (She still bought the place).

Also, the idea of constantly letting people into your home to have quotes organised for a potential buyer just mystifies me.

That doesn't change anything OP.

You can't insist on getting access to drill into someone else's wall.

If you pull out of the sale and the vendor feels this issue might be a problem for future sales then they'll likely get the required survey done themselves.

You have explained it properly, it's just that we disagree.

I think any other buyer would find the same in their survey and request the same.

It doesn't matter what another buyer would do. That's nothing to do with you. If you pull out, what happens to the house subsequently is up to them.

The vendors don't want to have holes drilled into their house. It would be risky for them for all the reasons mentioned upthread. Many of us think that's entirely reasonable of them. Even if it were unreasonable, it's still their decision to make.

Either you are willing to buy the house or not. Was it priced at a lower rate than others in the area? If so the owners have probably already accounted for the fact they know work needs to be undertaken. You get quotes done AFTER you own the house. If I was your vendor I'd be irritated by you wanting to drill holes etc.

Our vendor allowed a visual inspection of the loft by a builder as a chimney breast had been removed, but we confirmed beforehand we had no intention of asking for a reduction whatever we found it was just to know if we needed to act quickly on completion. We were lucky they were accommodating as we needed to put a beam in sharpish.

You sound like awkward buyers to me.

OP, it might be helpful if you posted the exact wording of the issues for others to comment on.

Surveyors are notorious for covering their arses with scary sounding phrases which actually mean nothing.

A survey will always be full of what might happen so they can say I told you so if it ever did- that doesn't mean it's terribly likely to do so.

OP what did the survey say about value??

We are going through a building survey at the moment - we are buyers, the roof survey should be acceptable. But it's unlikely that intrusive tests such as drilling would be acceptable. We have done asbestos tests, etc.

You might be able to buy indemnity insurance against any possible work required in this area (cavity wall), speak to your surveyor and conveyance solicitor. If they have had cavity wall insulation done - make sure you request a copy of any guarantee still in force.

I agree that the survey valuation makes a big difference. I'm assuming, as you've dodged the question, that the house was valued at your offer.

I can't imagine any vendor agreeing to drilling, especially when you so obviously are going to try to use it to renegotiate. I think it's quite annoying (and, yes, I agree common among FTB) that so many people see the survey as simply a tool to enable people who've offered more than they wanted to to get the price down, rather than a process of checking to make sure that there's nothing wrong that you couldn't have noticed yourself.

The comparative house prices may be more or less comparative depending on when the last sales were. If houses like this one don't come up often and they're all from years ago, the market may well have moved on.

When we bought our house (not a doer upper), the vendors wouldn't budge on the asking price despite us identifying a couple of issues. We eventually decided to offer what the wanted, but the valuation came back lower. At that point we had to renegotiate due to borrowing. We could only get visual estimates, and the quoted costs were well above the difference between asking cost and valuation. The vendors weren't willing to drop any lower and in the end, the work cost a lot more than the estimates anyway.

I think, what I am trying to say, is don't buy the house if there may be large costs that you can't afford. We are about put the house in the market, and certainly won't let any invasive investigations be done, or be 'paying' for alterations that the buyers believe need doing. The builders might make the walls good, but it could still necessitate re-painting etc, which is a faff at best.

I wouldn't agree to it either.You've had your survey (most of which are completely arse-covering, as you have found out) and it's pointed out that work may need doing. To get major works done, you should get quotes from at least 3 trades people, otherwise you may well get a quote from a cowboy who massively under or over prices, or doen't know what they're talking about. Really, why would any seller want that kind of hassle?

I understand that you are worried about it, as FTB you are bound to be. You need to be a bit more realistic though.

Well done! This is good effective negotiation. They know that if significant you would ask for discount but wouldn't help this discount be finely assessed, so now you have to add a risk protection amount into your discount.

Say something like that you estimate the risk that the work will be over £20,000 without a check is about 50:50, and the 'routine' solution to be £10k, so without inspection, you would need to start negotiating at a £15k discount. So the same for other works. I would also personally add another £5k anyway, as the 'don't inspect' block could be reasonably interpreted as increasing the likelihood damage is more significant.than let on.

If the work at worst would cost £50k plus then I would say no sale without inspection, or an offer at least £60k below asking price.

I wouldn't let you drill holes in my walls either.

I have never heard of anyone allowing holes to be drilled in their house by a prospective buyer! It would be madness. Visual quotes, yes.

Lanark: it's not effective negotiation. If the valuation is what they offered despite any potential issues, the vendor will probably tell them to piss off.

Particularly with regards to the roof. You can see the bloody thing so can decide if it looks like it might be a problem at offer stage. The cavity wall stuff sound like typical survey whatifery.

So agree about survey 'whatifery'! They put the wind up first time buyers like mad. And I've had 3 of them and they are full of arse covering sentences so they surveyors don't get sued!

Yes. 'The foundations of the extension may not be sufficient if aliens decide to use the flat roof as a landing pad' is about as sensible as some of the stuff we had in the survey on this house.