neighbours tore down my fence and put up on of their own on my property!

[Pangurban1]

I came home from holidays to find my neighbours to my back removed my back fence and put up one instead with ancillary concrete works on my land.

The fence is denoted as my responsibility on my deeds. They are not shared fences. They concreted over electric cables to back of wooden shed. We have a built up patio area at the back and the old fence was a retaining type of fence.

A large limb from our chestnut tree damaged the fence and we were waiting to replace our other fence at the side at the same time. The fence still functioned as a divider and was okay for purposes. They have installed a very high one in its stead on our property.

So, they removed our property which was on our property and we now have their fence on our land. They said the posts were in the same place, but they have been newly concreted on our side so don't know if they were moved in much. There is less space behind our shed. We don't have pictures as weren't expecting someone to tamper with our property like this.

My husband went around and they said the fence couldn't be put back as it was all taken away. They seem to be saying it is a joint or shared fence and they are not asking us for the cost! Not sure if that is for getting someone to pull up our fence and destroying it or building their fence on our land. It is a cheap, dog rough thing. I am looking a a very rough surface. As well as all the lumpy concrete works on our side.

They must have seen the house in darkness for a week and then went for it. Even if it was shared, they should have waited to check. However, as it was our fence it is something else to rip it up without our instruction, never mind permission.

I do not want someone else fence on our property. I wonder if I should I report the theft and destruction of our property to the police? What route do I have to go down to get them out of our property?

Ironically we were going to do the fences in the next couple of months.

FFS MsMommie, you've obviously come onto Mumsnet by mistake. Shouldn't you be out helping someone in need and sending your money to the destitute instead of wasting it on silly things, like the internet?

How does that even work as an insult MsMommie?
Did you mean first world problem?

Did you mean first world problem

I didn't even pick up on that. That's so funny.

I would start by calling the police to report the vandalism and theft. if you dally too long you are tacitly agreeing to their acts. Call the police now for full documentation. Then get a solicitor. Make it a factor of any settlement that they play your legal costs.

Theft? It was a damaged fence that was going to be replaced! Talk about over reaction. This is being built up into a far bigger thing that it actually is with all this talk of legal fees and police. Any solicitor will be rubbing their hands with glee.

I'd respond with 'we have no intention of leaving it there, this is your notice to remove it or we will'. You def need to get someone in to check for any damage caused by the concrete over your power cables.

I have found an photo showing the right of the fence from our back. It was damaged insofar as one slat was partially broken and was a bit wonky in height from left to right. The fence was still upright and could have been levelled again with the panels that were there. The line was still there. The levelling was only a cosmetic issue as the line was maintained. As none were leaning into their garden or any large area missing, we were biding our time to put up same fencing along both our back garden fences as the wood of the fences were/are older.

There weren't any gaps where one could pop through or any expansive open holes. In fact, I was looking at my other neighbours fence (the only one not on our deeds) and her fence has more variations in height and leaning from left to right of the panels. Wood coming off concrete footings and I don't regard that as my cue to furtively thieve and vandalise their property and place something of my own choosing there when they are away. Guess I just have different set of standards but should not be surprised at how others operate.

If they did not like your fence they could have put one in their property to replace yours.

If they are telling you that you don't need to pay, they know it's in your land and your responsibility.

furtively thieve and vandalise their property

They just replaced the fence. The fence you were going to replace. No' they shouldn't have done it but all this emotive talk of theft and vandalism is helping no one. Talk of lawyers and suing is helping no one.

Just replace it as you were going to replace it and there has been no loss on your part whatsoever.

Not so simple because of the extra concrete and possible damage to wiring.

best call 999 then.

Sure. It's exactly the same thing.
Reporting as vandalism or calling 999.
Perhaps the OP should, conversely, invite the neighbours to rearrange her house as well, if we are entering the realm of stupid things to do.

SoupDragon I wonder how you would react if someone did this to you? So what if the OP's posts are emotional - I'd be bloody upset and annoyed in her shoes!

Fences and (not the same thing) boundaries cause lots of disputes and it is by far the best approach to reflect on your desired outcome before escalating.

It is very difficult (nigh impossible) to fix a measured boundary and some people spend many years and hundreds of thousands in legal fees arguing over a few inches

Yes they should have reached an amicable agreement if they knew it was your fence so they acted badly but the wise course is to resolve the issue amicably rather than take the headstrong approach

if nothing else consider that neighbour disputes blight property and lives quite unnecesarily so better to be open to discussing a solution

unnecessarily

Go on Judge Rinder. They love this kind of thing...

In all seriousness though, I would demand that they remove it and replace it with your original fence (which they will have buy if they've destroyed it) or you will be consulting a solicitor.

Seemingly, it is now our new fence. They destroyed our previous fence and replaced it with this new one. On what they stated in a text is the same line as the old one, using the same posts.

Our deeds state this is our boundary to maintain, so new fence in exact same spot as old one is making good their destruction of ours. Talked to a really good RICS guy on the phone. We will get a solicitors letter outlining what they did and accept this as recompense for the fence they destroyed on us. Reserve the right to do with it as it is our property as it in lieu of the old one they destroyed, which is on our deeds as our boundary to maintain.

Off my own bat, possibly mention may be pursuing if any any resultant difficulties arising from their unilateral uninvited work on our property affecting our electric cables or possibly drainage issues from the type of slabs they have encased the bottom of the fence in. Will talk to someone about these issues, maybe. Small claims would be easy enough, I reckon.

Also, never interfere with, destroy or come on to our property like this again uninvited.

Will feel a bit better anyway when this is put to them on record. Will treat it as our own then and not as their property on my old fence site. Will possibly/probably change the panels later on in the year.

Our fence was not really in that bad nick, looking at the photo.

Bloody hell, we had to nag our neighbour for years to get him to replace the dodgy tumbledown fence between our properties (his boundary; we couldn't afford to put our own up). Yours have done it for you, without being asked once!

True, I'd be pissed off about the lack of consultation, but you've got a brand new fence. For free. I'd try and find something bigger to worry about, if I were you.

Of course, it may be more modified than that. But rics person seemed to think it was a no brainer. Thing is I'm going to reassert our ownership and responsibility to maintain the boundary and treat it as our property.

People come up with strange ideas. One person on our road said that people simply alternate responsibility for a boundary fence. So you could have responsibility for part of the fence, but when another neighbour then backs onto you, responsibility could suddenly swap over to the side simply for a metre or two. Over and back as a pattern, every time one of the properties changes.

Rics person asked me about the deeds.

We're not there yet, Cointreau. All is correct on our side, but we do have a neighbour who had no compunction in tampering with our property and pulling this off opportunistically. It is the rics person who seemed to think it was this plain. Unfortunately, crappy dodgy neighbour is still there.

How come you didn't tear the fence down, destroy and put what your wanted up, like our lovely neighbour?

Not for free, the sol'r will cost and it is not over yet. Plus edgy now about these people.

Hi OP for various reasons that I won't go into I have just been involved in a similar dispute. You have a case under civil action for tresspass of the new fence on your lamd and you are owed compensation for the loss of your own fence plus you could make a complaint of criminal damage to the police. You will be in it for the long haul though and my own case cost £10k in my fees alone so beware if just engaging in a legal action unless you have a few grand knocking about in your bank account not doing much.

what is not generally known is that the red line on a deed is accurate to less than 0.5m so you cannot rely on this as 'proof' you will need to engage a boundary dispute surveyor. Normally you both agree to boundary determination and the loser pays the cost (£1200 or so).

So I would stop and think. Is the new fence really bothering you or is it the cheek of it all (and I understand that viewpoint!) I would Write a polite letter to your neighbour (or get your solicitor to do so) laying out your complaint so that they understand the ramifications of not doing anything. They might respond. If they don't and If you think they will not be there for long and more importantly, you don't plan to sell your house, you have the ability be able to stop the prospective sale of their house by getting your solicitor to write to them every year informing them that the fence is in the wrong place. They won't realise, but You will have created a boundary dispute which they will have to solve at some point before selling. Name your price to settle the dispute then. There is always more than one way to skin a cat...

Oh my 10 grand! Hope it works out for you, but the stress. Thanks for the insight, I will mull that over. A dispute over the boundary location would, of course, as you point out, affect us too. However, I guess we could suddenly 'withdraw' the dispute and suddenly accept the location if we wanted to sell.

I can live with where the fence is, though, it would not have been too much overall. However, the boundary is ours to maintain on the deeds and as they have stated in a text that they used the old line it doesn't complicate things too much re the perspective of them destroying our old fence and 'making good' to us by furnishing us with a new one. This is not what they think they have done. My beef is integrity of my ownership of my boundary feature and someone interfering with my property and doing works with permission and supervision on my property.

The letter will confirm this position and if they don't respond it will be regarded as acquiescence. Also, reaffirms our ownership of the boundary feature to do with as we will. Having been made aware of the deeds and the status of the boundary feature it would not look too good if they meddled again. They could not claim ignorance or a mistake. It will be up to them to 'dispute' as it is ours on the deeds and they say they haven't moved the line. We are not creating any argument about the red line. There is only one boundary feature and it is where it always was (we'll accept this). It is on our deeds as our responsibility. So, it was our fence they mucked about with as well as our patio.

Also, it brings out into the light and registers they have trespassed and interfered with our property and admonishes them to never do this again. They think as they did it furtively while were absent, it is done and dusted with and there would be no consequences.

In short, I'm happy enough with the boundary feature's position. It just needs to be put to bed that it is my boundary feature to maintain and do with as I want as per our deeds. So not a boundary dispute as such. And to relate there will be comeback if they have caused any problems with their tampering of our electric cables. I probably won't pursue anything as we will be rearranging the area anyway, but that is not to let them off the hook. The only thing stopping people destroying the property of others cannot be that you have to sit and watch it all day. They need to know they cannot treat our property as if it was our own, where we are there or not.

Strangely, I have never gone onto anyone's land and meddled with it, never mind carting it away and destroying it. This is not normal, honest or decent behaviour. It is furtive, criminal and sly.

I agree with your sentiment. My dispute has been settled but you cannot ignore the red line on a deed as this is likely what your neighbour will refer to so don't be surprised if they do. I would also point out their liability towards covering the electric cable should anything go wrong with said cable. Good luck and don't let it eat you up!!

If they have replaced it and it is now your property in lieu of your old fence, presumably you have the right to paint it. On both sides... They would not have the right to paint their side of your fence (anyone ever seen any good neighbour-painting-fence threads on MN?!). They also need to allow you access onto their land in order to maintain (ie paint) the boundary. Perhaps this is most convenient for them when they are on holiday.

Just a thought. Do you like neon pink and yellow stripes?

The letter will confirm this position and if they don't respond it will be regarded as acquiescence

Pretty sure this is wrong.

Has anyone looked at your Nieghbours deeds. It wouldn't be the first time that Nieghbours deeds contradicted each other.

I'd be fuming too. I'm always amazed that some people claim it would t bother them.