Neighbour is asking for a legal contract for us to put scaffolding on his driveway

[chicaguapa]

We've just got planning permission for a 2nd story extension. The neighbours objected but permission was granted anyway.

We weren't aware of this until we got the report from the council but we went round and spoke to them to smooth things over. So things are ok, on the whole.

Just to clarify, so as to not drip feed. They bought their house 9 months before we did and there was lapsed planning permission on ours at the time so they knew that an extension was likely when buying theirs IYSWIM. We have just reapplied for it.

But they said that they want a proper contract drawn up for us to put scaffolding on their driveway, at our cost. To include cost penalties for going over the agreed timescales and to limit access to their driveway to certain times.

Tbh I hadn't even got to the stage of thinking where scaffolding would go other than the fact that it was one of their objections in the report. It may not even need to go on their driveway but I was surprised that there'd be legal costs to do this. Is this usual?

No we don't mind other than being a bit when it went up. It hasn't damaged the wall. We think they should be allowed to put a gate over their driveway tbh and there'd be no other way of them having one if it wasn't attached to our house. We have a trellis attached to their garage wall as it is in our garden (however we did ask if we could put it up).

I didn't mention it in the OP as it's not a tit for tat situation and I didn't expect this to turn into a AIBU. But generally you expect people to behave towards you how you behave towards others. So we thought they were pretty laid back if they had done that without saying anything first and they were a bit when we asked if they minded if we put a trellis up. We didn't think they'd be bothered about our extension which the builder told us wouldn't affect them anyway having not mentioned the scaffolding issue, which we hadn't considered.

Our old neighbours took down the fence between our houses when building an extension. With permission from us.

On a day the builders were offsite, we were burgled - the burglars gained easy access to our garden. They dismantled part of the scaffolding and reerected it in our garden to gain access to a upper window.

It was horribly distressing and we lost out financially.

I wouldn't be so accommodating to neighbours builders in future, I'm afraid.

No the gate was put up before planning permission was applied for. We just thought it had probably been discussed/ agreed with the previous owners as it was only a few months after we had moved in and had maybe been on order or something.

We didn't think we had a bad relationship with them. Always been friendly and introduced ourselves when we moved in, offered to feed their cats when away etc.

When it came through on the planning report, which my DM read, she just said "Don't worry about the objection to the scaffolding. We had to let our NDN put it on our driveway and had to remove all the raspberry plants." which I then remembered. They barely knew their NDN before they came round to talk about scaffolding.

So we didn't expect an enormous issue or to incur legal costs (which is different to having a sense of entitlement) which is what the OP is about.

We have a shared driveway with our neighbours , they own it and we have right of access . So in some circumstances we have a right to put scaffolding up . There is a legal contract that governs this . Your mother might have something similar.

This doesnt mean that everyone in the country has an automatic right to put up scaffolding in their neighbours drive way . Nor does it mean that he should pay some of the legal costs to facilitate your extension .

And you seriously believe that a two storey extension adjacent to your boundary wont affect your neighbour in any way ? Really ? No machinery, noise, dirt, deliveries , vehicles parked in the driveway and street , skip ?

www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

Please have read on this forum and ask questions.

I've been running builds for over twenty years, never ever fall out with neighbours before a build, it will cost you a lot more.

I would switch from indignant, to a massive kindness and understanding strategy, ask them what their concerns are, and genuinely take them into consideration, it will be far easier than conflict.

Before we even consider a contract we start with making sure the surrounding neighbours feel considered, it always helps the process.

We didn't expect an enormous issue or to incur legal costs.

You were mistaken about that, then. Maybe your neighbour is not a nice person, but you can't choose your neighbours. Maybe he is worried because he had a bad experience in the past, as dannydyerismydad did.

IMO your best bet would be to have the scaffolding put up in such a way that you don't need to put any scaffolding on their driveway. Then no need for any agreement or contract.

My neighbours asked if they could put scaffolding in our garden to do their extension. They told us it would just be a pole on our side of the wall and would be there for six weeks.
Oh and by the way it was being erected next week. I wanted to say no out of principle that they had approached us at such short notice and obviously had no plan b if we said no. But my husband said we should be nice and neighbourly.

The following week they erected what can only be described as a monstrosity. Scaffolding with a tent over the whole house. Tarpaulin that blocked light to half of my windows, obstructed my view and flapped noisily at night. Three poles in my garden and a great platform jutting out over my land. This is on top of the frantically incredible noise and disruption of their build which lasted nearly a year.

The scaffolding was there for 20 weeks and I had absolutely no recourse because I had no legal contract.

No one would be setting foot on my land again without a legal contract including penalties for overrunning.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

It's a second story extension, not a 2-story extension, along the lines of a glorified dormer but spanning the entire width of the garage which means building on the gable end. Admittedly this does still cause some disruption to the NDN but not having carried out work like this before it's not something we'd considered being unusually intrusive and requiring legal contracts and costs. We were more focussing on the long-term effects of the extension on them (not overlooking etc) rather than something lasting a relatively short period of time.

We have already agreed to wait until at least the autumn until starting any work so it doesn't affect their garden when they most want to use it. Our idea. We also said if they are going away in September (like they did last year when we fed their cats) we'd aim to get the messiest part of the work done over those two weeks when they're away.

So we are willing to minimise the disruption to them and aware of the need to do this. Not just because it helps not to fall out with the NDN but just out of common courtesy of us all living together in one society.

Once again I need to point out that I was just querying the necessity to pay legal costs for something I didn't think we needed. We have now established that whether or not it's legally required, it's a good idea to have it anyway as it protects both parties. I'm still concerned that NDN is going to use this to impose restrictions on the build, but as he'll want to get the scaffolding off his driveway as quickly as possible hopefully they won't be too limiting.

I think that scaffolding in the NDN's airspace over his driveway still counts as if it's on the driveway, but it's an option to explore as to minimise the impact on them. We would have done that anyway now that they've said it would bother them.

I'm only replying as a neutral observer so nothing personal against you OP. But if I objected to planning permission and then a neighbour wanted to erect scaffolding on my driveway I wouldn't be pleased and don't know if I would even allow it. There was a thread a good while ago about access to a person's garden which they gave permssion for and then it dragged on and on and on with mud and builders junk and so on.

I don't know what would happen if they refused permission altogether but I think you should try to keep on their good side. I agree with people saying your should have mentioned the extension to your neighbour first and got their thoughts on it. A two storey extension is a big job.

There is apparently a way to lay bricks from the inside of a building rather than the outside, and it can be used in cases when a neighbour objects to scaffolding on their land. It's more expensive for you, but it does avoid your neighbour issue.

As far as I know from the Gardenlaw website (and I'm an avid reader), you have no rights to place scaffolding for new building on a neighbour's land but you can get a court-order if the scaffolding is required to maintain a older building.

I think your neighbour is being very reasonable by even considering allowing you the option of using his land and he should be, if anything, financially compensated rather than out of pocket. I wouldn't be so generous if a neighbour was building something that I felt was detrimental to my own property or quality of life.

What kind of neigbor you have has ntohing to do with who pays the legal fees. They could be wild preppers who yell a military like drill in their garden every morning at 6am and have buit a bomb shelter on their driveway that caused lots of issues for you, the legal fees would still be yours to pay. It is two unrelated matters

Imagine if they asked you to pay so they can access your yard while building a bombshelter you don't want?

Be resonable, those legal costs will be less expensive than if he refuses you access to his garden. He is doing you a favor by accepting to give let you impede on his property.

Your NDN is totally right and if I was him/her and you were coming across as that entitled I would be charging you a fat daily fee for every pole of scaffolding in my drive not to mention ensuring the contract was watertight in terms of indemnification for damages (and I'd go one step further and ask for an upfront fund on account and provisions that you would pay my legal fees in case I ever had to claim against you under the contract). Why should your work, even potentially, cost the NDN anything?

Thanks scootica. I will mention this to the scaffolding companies when we get to that stage and see if they have anything suitable.

Things are amicable with NDN and I am comfortable with the situation between us. For the millionth time I was just asking if it was usual to have a legal agreement, as I'd not heard of one before in this situation and wondered if he was just trying to make it difficult and create costs for the sake of it.

It turns out that it is usual, so I'm happy to have one if the terms are reasonable and it gives him peace of mind. And I'll pay for it too as it turns out it's required to have access to his driveway.

If, when it comes to it, the terms aren't reasonable we can just build the gable end from the inside as that seems to be an option too. Because of the small size and position of the extension I think this will be possible and then he won't have to put up with any scaffolding on his driveway at all.

Thanks to PP who rtft and gave sensible responses to help me understand the situation a bit better.