German kitchen brands

[gabbybaby]

Does anyone know anything about Kuhlmann kitchens? How do they compare to Hacker? Any other brands that you would you recommend or not? Is a German kitchen inherently better? TIA!!

anyone with an opinion on German kitchen brands vs British?? Is German inherently better?

Trouble is its s pretty subjective topic - people with German kitchens are more likely to think they are the best - people with others might think similar of theirs ...
The key thing is to find a door/look/style you like and are happy with - in a price you are happy to pay and with a company who you are happy with supplying and /or installing etc .

With so much choice in the market place - competition is good - to be fair to all of suggest you use one layout and ask lots of different companies to price that particular layout - that's the only way you can compare prices fairly .

If you turn this question around to cars instead of kitchens ( as similar prices and similar county manufacturers ) you would probably get similar results - for what it's worth - I drive a German car - but have a bespoke British kitchen !!

Hi gabbybaby. As Oneplanonhouzz suggests it can be quite subjective if you look at equivalent levels in quality as you can get great German, Italian or En glish kitchens for example.

The thing you'll generally notice is that German kitchens come from a heritage where they are designed to be able to withstand being moved from one property to another which is why they are generally designed to be more solidly built (ie glued and dowelled rather than screwed together with locking cam and dowell type fixings).

The key is to find a designer you like to work with and that you feel can give you the best advice to suit the budget you have as you'll get so much more from a good professional, both in terms of the use of space and also for your money.

Good luck!

I hear a lot of people raving about "German Kitchens". If you buy a good quality kitchen, and you can get them in the UK then your kitchen will stand the test of time. You need some strong units, quality doors, good hinges and runners and a good kitchen fitter to put it in. That kitchen will be going nowhere unless you leave your house in your will to your children and they decide that a kitchen 50 years from now needs to float:-) These people sell good kitchens and you'll be hard pressed to find a better quality one and get it cheaper as well.

I installed a Leicht kitchen in my old house - loved it - why it was better for us was the flexibility and large range of unit sizes, the huge choice of colours and finishes and the design. The unit sizing was important as it allowed us to use pretty much no spacers,making maximum use of space available, including the large 90cm wide drawers and 120cm wide push up and over cupboards that we wanted but nowhere else did them both in the same kitchen. In addition the finish was outstanding and after 5 years it still looked new, the paint finish was still immaculate, and all the hinges and door closers etc were in perfect working order as they were great quality and built to last.

I have to say I've designed many a kitchen for people buying from the place that Ramona mentioned ! No one has ever come back to me and said 'by the way they are rubbish ' or 'I got a better deal elsewhere ' so that's all positive !!

We also had a Leicht kitchen installed and the quality was superb. I agree about the sheer range of sizes to use all available space, and so many clever touches. All the fittings etc were included (hinge covers, drawer liners etc) and the choice of doors and colours available was amazing.

And the price we paid was less than the quote we had for a Howdens kitchen via a builder, which actually was a much less clever design and less interesting.

If you're anywhere near Bristol I highly recommend the people we used.

EarSlaps that is good to hear - we have also been looking at Leicht kitchens (and we are in Bristol!). We are waiting for a quote back from the showroom and hoping it's affordable... we loved the kitchens on display.

I'm interested in the handleless ones, I think...

Was it Kitchens By Design Currer?

Schuller handleless here - if you go for the basic doors its not much more expensive than Howdens.

Yes it was Kitchens By Design. We are hoping to get a design from them (if the price is ok). So far we've been very uninspired by the normal mid-range kitchen places, and no one has given us very good design advice.

I'm not sure about the practicality of handleless, although they look lovely. Are dishwashers and fridges easy to open, and do the doors get grubby quickly from being handled?

Kitchen by Design are amazing and Vanessa is a genius at using the space really well. She came up with such a clever design and really understood what we wanted. They accommodated my changes of mind very well too!

No idea about handle less as we went for handles (I like the look of handle less but thought cupboards would get grubby). We also kept our freestanding fridge after finding a previous integrated one a bit rubbish.

Please feel free to pm for any further info. We moved out of that house so can't show you pictures I'm afraid. We basically had it just like one of their display kitchens! Same cupboards, worktop, sink and paint.

Thanks EarFlaps - great to hear you were so happy with the design and kitchen. What a shame you had to leave it behind though! I may PM you with further questions - thanks.

We were really impressed by the double pantry units and all the clever fittings.

Sorry, EarSlaps not -Flaps!

Thanks for all the replies.
Pashmina - we also want the 90cm wide drawers. The German ones we've seen in 3 showrooms (3 diff German brands) all just have a sleek look that we don't seem to find in the UK built ones. Having said that, we're seeing an independent kitchen designer tomorrow who sources kitchens from somewhere in Scotland, which will be significantly cheaper, so I'm open to being swayed, if they can do the same size units & drawers and I don't feel as though we're compromising on style and quality. I think we'd end up paying more for appliances though, as we'd source those ourselves, whereas the kitchen showrooms seem to do a really good deal on appliances. So have to weight it all up.

Whiteagle - we've seen Schuller ones (that was one of the 3 German brands I just mentioned, others being Kuhlmann & Hacker) but they were the Next 125 range and too expensive for our budget, unfortunately.

Earslaps - nowhere near Bristol. We're in North London :).

Ramona - I've seen diykitchens. I like the idea, but I'm nervous about getting dimensions wrong and screwing it all up!! I need the inspiration I get from visiting the showrooms, to come up with the good design, and then see what I can do. I will look at diykitchens again though, to try to put a quote together to see what I can do.

I understand what you mean Gabbybaby. They do have an advice area that maybe able to help you as well here. advice.diy-kitchens.com/.

Hope it all goes well for you.

German kitchens are built differently to UK - they use a thicker board in the carcasses, which is why they feel sturdier.

They also come in bigger range of sizes, so ideal for oddly shaped kitchens.

You can get the sleek look from any kitchen range though - go for similar doors or drawers, integrated or handle-less fronts, and most importantly integrated appliances. If you have the space go for wider units, and a double width hob.

We bought our leicht kitchen from vogue kitchens in ealing west london - great to deal with - sourced all our appliances and got internet pricing, went handleless and dont think this increases cleaning as you need to clean the handles anyway, i just used to wipe down the units when they needed it. we had a large handle on the fridge and also a semi integrated dishwasher which had a built in handle.

we sourced the appliances

We spent Saturday looking at kitchens again and still love Leicht... Still considering handleless, and also gloss (even though I was worried gloss might date, as it's everywhere...). But they have a polymer faced door which looks like glass and is lovely - and apparently very hardwearing.

Keller is another range we were keen on - they are Dutch. We only saw them in a very small display though so it was difficult to compare with Leicht.

For more mainstream German brands, look at Nobilia and Alno - even their lower end ranges are very good quality. Not a patch on Leicht, obviously, but then neither are the prices.

Best prices on Neff appliances, btw - John Lewis.

Thanks all. I think we're decided on a Kuhlmann kitchen (I don't know anything about Kuhlmann, but just really liked the kitchen designer in the showroom, and trusted his design more than others we had). The appliances seem to come out much cheaper to get through the showroom, rather than the cheapest I can find for the same appliance online (mostly Siemens). We're getting the kitchen through Wilson Fink in Radlett. The other serious contender was an independent kitchen designer, who sources kitchens from Scotland (Ashley Ann) but in the end, wasn't coming out any cheaper, and we didn't have the same faith in her as a designer.

Gabbybaby - how did you find Wilson Fink - pre sales, after sales, quality, price, etc? We are considering using them for a German kitchen.

Yes I know that these are great quality kitchens as one of my friends has one and it looks amazing. Leicht german kitchens are also excellent - but yes difficult to say if they are 'better' than UK kitchen designers - even Wren Kitchens sell some decent quality but affordable kitchens. If your in the Bedfordshire area then I know these guys www.venussolutions.co.uk/kuhlmann-kitchens-bedfordshire.html who design and supply quality kitchens from the UK and Germany. Hope this helps. P.S. I have a Wren kitchen but we'd love a Kuhlmann one!

We ended up with a Kuhlmann kitchen too couple years ago - didnt realise they were so popular - we looked at several brands - some german and some british - but german just looked better somehow and not really any dearer - anyway went with a local shop and really pleased because they did the whole job which included granite tops, appliances and fitting plumbing & electrics - we are in South Bucks