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Original poster

Parent's Name on Deeds as a charge

44 replies

LtPigeon · 24/10/2015 19:58

Hi
Can anyone with knowledge about deeds shed any light on this for us please?
DH and I are sorting some paperwork out and have come across a question about the deeds to our house.
This house was originally bought outright for DH as a gift from his parents. It is DH's sole name on the deeds as Registered Owner, but his dad's name appears in Section C, Charges Register as proprietor.
DH no longer has a relationship with his dad due to difficult family circumstances, so we are a bit concerned.
I've only ever seen this as the mortgage lender appearing in this section, so we want to make sure that the house is actually just in his name and that his dad won't have any claim on the property.
Any thoughts?

OP posts:
wowfudge · 25/10/2015 05:47

Contact the Land Registry and ask them to explain what this means in your case - they are very good. You may be able to remove the charge but it could require FIL's consent. You may then need to involve a solicitor. FIL has a financial interest - the house wasn't a gift.

Luckystar1 · 25/10/2015 06:03

Can you obscure names and put up a pic please? It would make it easier to decipher.

ineedamoreadultieradult · 25/10/2015 06:09

My parents bought our house and we are buying it off them in monthly installments. Their name is in the charge section so if we stop paying them they have a claim over the house like a mortgage company, this is how it was explained to me aanyway.

Fuckitfay · 25/10/2015 06:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 25/10/2015 06:17

DH no longer has a relationship with his dad due to difficult family circumstances, so we are a bit concerned.
I've only ever seen this as the mortgage lender appearing in this section, so we want to make sure that the house is actually just in his name and that his dad won't have any claim on the property
Any thoughts?

That sounds pretty clear. Your FIL has a charge (first/only charge?) over the property. It sounds as though the house was not an outright gift. You'll have to negotiate to get the charge removed.

Did your DH really not know this? Awkward to become estranged from someone who holds a charge on your home. Equally unusual not to know that someone has a charge over your property.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 25/10/2015 06:19

(I'm just wondering what advice your DH sought originally and what he was told.)

Imperialleather2 · 25/10/2015 06:20

The title wontcreally show anything. If he is in the charges register then he is a mortgagee and the only way to get it removed is with him signing a DS1 form sad submitting it to the Land Register
Unless the entry starts with the word 'Restriction' but even then you need his consent.

Luckystar1 · 25/10/2015 10:32

It absolutely depends on the wording. A restriction is in the proprietorship register (and with a charge, I would normally expect to see a restriction as without it, you can technically deal with the property as you wish, albeit that any purchaser who wish to have the charge discharged at/prior to the sale.

It may be a restrictive coventant?? The wording is very important!

Original poster
LtPigeon · 28/10/2015 09:26

Thanks for replies so far, I didn't expect to get any!
I should probably clarify, that we don't have the original deeds, they are with a solicitor and DH has never seen them.
We've applied online for a copy of the title and this is where we've seen this entry. I will try to scribe the relevant wording a bit later on so it will hopefully clarify this. I really wouldn't be surprised if his F had done this and not told him, he's that kind of person, hence the NC.

OP posts:
wowfudge · 28/10/2015 09:53

Can you take a photo of the relevant bit and attach that to a post (put a bit of paper over the name first) - easier than typing it all out?

Original poster
LtPigeon · 28/10/2015 12:02

I've had another look and it seems to be pretty cut and dried.
6 REGISTERED CHARGE dated [purchase date]
7 Proprietor: [F's Name] of [our address]

We have spoken to the solicitor that did the conveyancing and they've given us the brush off, saying that it's a financial charge and that DH would have signed to agree to this. It means that we can't sell without permission and if we did, we'd have to repay as if it was a loan.

This has all come as a bit of a surprise(!) so, we're seeing our solicitor next week to get some legal advice about how to proceed.
What a bastard, eh?

OP posts:
Luckystar1 · 28/10/2015 12:21

Ok yes that's fairly straightforward! The Land Registry should have a copy of the charge i would request it if I were you. It will be necessary for you to see the sums secured, as, presumably your DH hasn't been paying anything back?

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but your DH should have known about this, these things don't just appear unilaterally on the register...

VegasIsBest · 28/10/2015 12:30

Your husband must be aware that his parents made a contribution to buying the property. And he must have expected to repay that at some point.

So putting aside all personal issues, I don't see why this makes your FIL a bastard.

Original poster
LtPigeon · 28/10/2015 12:35

Thank you for practical advice, I am not, however, looking for any moral judgements here. Put yourself in our shoes, eh?
No, there was not any indication that the equity did not belong to DH, its a complete shock and besides, there are other siblings.
I'm not going into detail to compromise anyone's privacy, but it appears that this is the only property that has this charge on the title.

OP posts:
Original poster
LtPigeon · 28/10/2015 12:41

Just to clarify, because that last post has got my back up - this house + others for other siblings were bought, outright, as gifts. No expectation for repayment of any loans.

OP posts:
wowfudge · 28/10/2015 12:54

In your shoes, I think a parent has been generous - mine couldn't have done that for me. As a pp stated - your DH must have known when he signed. He was somewhat naive if he didn't read the documents. I do agree that if one child has been treated differently from his siblings that is unfair of the parents. He may not have been treated differently though - difficult to know for sure.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 28/10/2015 12:54

Thank you for practical advice, I am not, however, looking for any moral judgements here. Put yourself in our shoes, eh?

It might be better to avoid "What a bastard" type comments then, TBF.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 28/10/2015 12:55

X post.

What wowfudge said. Every word.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 28/10/2015 12:57

Good practical advice is probably to suggest to the siblings that they check the deeds of their gifted houses.

RaphaellaTheSpanishWaterDog · 28/10/2015 13:04

Definitely seems odd OP, in that your FIL led your DH to believe it was a gift - particularly if the other siblings have no such charge in their properties.
My parents bought us a house many years ago and despite them being the type that would have some kind of ulterior motive done something similar to this, there was no financial charge on the property/title register/deeds etc. It was ours outright to do with as we wished and sell when we wanted.

At the time we all visited the family solicitor together and everything was gone through so there were no misunderstandings. I assume that similarly your DH was involved in the legal side of the gifting of the house and I would have thought at that point this should have become apparent.

Unfortunately it sounds as though you and your DH will have to approach his dad about this......all the best Flowers

wowfudge · 28/10/2015 13:41

Okay - so say FIL needs to have his loan repaid, what's the equity in the house? That is then your deposit and you get a mortgage for the rest of the purchase price of the next place. FIL has in effect gifted you the equity. You might then be looking at cheaper houses/areas to move to, but it's not as though you've been paying a mortgage or rent for years with nothing to show for it. Assuming there is equity of course.

Original poster
LtPigeon · 28/10/2015 13:44

Just to be clear, the house purchases were very much a probable tax dodge rather than any generosity involved. He is a bastard though, I'm not going into all of that here though, just take my word for it.

Let's just pretend for a minute that the house you've been living in, maintaining and spending money on for 11 years and thought was yours, actually isn't and when the person involved passes on, the equity will then pass to his new wife, who you've never met, or one of her children. And you can't move house without their permission or repaying them 000s and 000s of pounds. How do you feel about it now?

OP posts:
StrawberryTeaLeaf · 28/10/2015 13:51

Nobody could deny that it's awkward and very unsettling and disappointing for you.

The confusing aspect is how your DH was unaware for all of this time. I can't fathom that at all.

And it IS generous to gift people house (even if the giver eats kittens and kicks hedgehogs in day to day life). Tax avoidance that involves giving away large assets doesn't actually benefit the giver, it just deprives the tax coffers.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 28/10/2015 13:55

Unless, of course, the giver retains a financial share, in which case he may gain long term from any appreciation. Your FIL does seem to have done this.

Which brings us back to the issue of how this all came about, what paperwork was signed, how much attention your DH was paying etc

Original poster
LtPigeon · 28/10/2015 14:01

No more engagement from me on this, I was looking for some input from posters with knowledge of property law, not a jury on whether my husband has been naive in not quizzing his family on whether they were planning to pull a fast one on him. We'll be taking legal advice on it, so we'll leave it there. Thanks.

OP posts: