Anyone can tell me what's happening here?

[myusername78900]

Hi,
name changed because I don't want to out myself. I apologise in advance if the question I am asking is idiotic/unreasonable/you-name-it, but DH and I are FTB, no one in our family/acquaintance circle owns a property, and I really don't know whom to ask this.

the facts:
DH and I are FTB (and chain free). We have looked at a number of flats and finally put an offer on one offered with vacant possession. We knew when we put the offer that there was another interested party (also chain free) who was going to look at the flat yesterday afternoon.

We put in the offer on Saturday evening. The EA contacted us yesterday (my understanding is that she saw our offer when she came into work yesterday morning), called back, said that the owners wanted some time to think it over. Fair enough, DH and I understood they wanted to wait for party nr.2 to look at the property and make an offer.

EA called yesterday in the early evening. Party nr.2 had viewed the flat and made an offer. Now, our first offer was under asking price (the flat is in need of modernisation), but if we have understood correctly, party nr2 has also offered under asking, even though the EA won't (cannot?) tell us the amount they are offering.
Anyway, we really want the flat, so after discussing what to do, DH called EA and increased our offer.

After that, radio silence. We don't know if the EA told the sellers about our offer yesterday evening, or if she waited until this morning (why would she do that though? Wouldn't the sellers want to know straight away about offers?)

In the meanwhile, an EA from another agency has sent me the details of another flat and asked if we want to book a viewing.

I called DH, who called EA nr1 and explained her the situation. EA nr1 said that she was expecting an answer from the sellers any minute. This was more than 90 minutes ago.

We really cannot understand what's going on. I have tried to come up with different scenarios, please help me to understand what's happening here, this property business is starting to do me in (I have IBS, without going into details I'll just say that I'm working from home today).

Scenario nr 1: There is no other interested party/they are not chain free: obviously the EA wants the most money for her clients, but if the sellers' problem is that our offer is too low, or they have decided that they want to sell to us but won't settle for less than the asking price, why not say so? I thought a seller wanted to sell as quickly as possible? As said, the flat is empty, it's not as if we, or anyone else, want to chase the sellers away from their home.

Scenario nr2: party nr.2 has offered more than us. Same question as before: why wouldn't the EA ask if we want to offer more? I understand she cannot tell us the amount the other party is offering, but cannot she at least say something to the effect of "Party nr2 has made a counteroffer, do you want to up your offer?" or AIBU? Maybe she cannot even say words to that effect? As said, no one we know has any clue as how the property market works, so I have no one to ask (and have no experience myself about how it works).

Scenario nr3: the sellers have decided to keep the flat/rent it out/demolish it/whatever. It's their prerogative and I accept that. I think it would be common courtesy to say it promptly though.

Scenario nr4: the sellers are trying to make us antsy (they have btw, but only because after 6 months of chasing a home for us the stress of it all is finally getting to me (and to my colon!) and make us offer asking price. However, we have told their EA about the other flat, so if she has passed the information on to the sellers they do know we have another option. (mind you, we might book a viewing of the other flat anyway, but I am not sure if it is correct to do so).

We can bid the asking price for the flat if it comes to that, but obviously we didn't want to start with it (market here is a bit slow, not snail paced, but definitely not a London-50-people-at-every-viewing-sealed-bids-by-tomorrow-12-noon kind of market. and definitely not so many chain free people, this party nr2 is the first one we've heard of so far), and we are going to increment our offer a chunk at the time.

Scenarion nr5 (conspiratorial, I know, but bear with me for a sec): party nr2 are friends of the EA/property developers/BTL LLs/ you name it, and the EA has decided that it is in her best interest to sell to them. In that case we are fucked I guess, she won't pass any offer to the vendors anyway. And before I get crucifixed: I know it's illegal, and I am not suggesting it is true, but I have heard it happens that EAs "make" sellers sell to BTL LLs so that they (EAs) can rake in the letting fees afterwards. Don't know if that's the case here.

Scenarion nr6: does anyone have any suggestion as to what it could be?

Stop thinking about scenarios.

Make your offers then walk away and let them stew.

It's just a waiting game. The EA could be busy showing someone else around one of the few hundred other homes they are trying to sell or negotiating with others over their offers on other houses. You will not be the only customers and clients being dealt with.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket, go and view others while you wait for an answer.

You are overthinking this.

It would be against their best interests if the agent didn't give you the opportunity to counter offer, as they want to get the best price possible.

It's probably just that someone is being a bit slow (and really it hasn't been that long), or they're giving the other party time to counter offer. Most likely they'll come back to you before the end of today and either ask you to up your offer or they'll accept it. I don't think there's anything sinister going on here.

In the meantime, if you like the look of this other flat you should go see it. There are absolutely no rules against that, and it's good to keep your options open. You might like it more than this place.

As a general point you need to try your best to keep emotions out of the negotiating process.

Yes

The agent is telling you things that are intended to make you pay more money (and it has worked). Possibly they are true.

Like buses, there will be another one along in a minute. Don't get emotionally attached to any of the homes you look at until you have bought it. Until that time, keep looking, even if you think it is all going perfectly. It never does.

Sorry, I lost interest half-way through all the scenarios. You are completely overthinking this. EA probably couldn't get in touch with the sellers last night or they asked the EA for overnight to think about the offer. If the flat is vacant, maybe it is a family inheritance following death and requires agreement from several people, for instance? Harry on looking at any and all flats which interest you, you don't need to be checking in with EA No 1, you can always cancel viewings if necessary. The EA will get back to you when they have news.

I would not get too involved and keep looking, like pigletjohn says.

Last time we tried to buy a house, our offer was refused and we were not given a chance to up it. The EA was an arse who was more interested in selling us a mortgage and we weren't interested. We walked away.

The house needed work, so the offer, from a hard nosed buyer, that was accepted was reduced at the 11th hour after the survey. Karma. (We live in a village )

90 minutes is not that long in the world of buying and selling houses.

Maybe one of the sellers is in a meeting. Maybe they have gone back to the other interested party and one of THEM is in a meeting.

I would imagine they'll come back to you and ask for best and final offers if both parties are still interested.

In the meantime you should go and view any other flats that come onto the market that you like the look of. Any of them could turn out to be better than this one you are worrying over.

I'm sorry I couldn't face reading all your scenarios. I mean this in the nicest possible way, but if you're going to make it through the next x months of house purchasing, you're going to need to relax a lot. Seriously. It will get way more stressful than this. People behave like idiots for various reasons most of which you will never fathom.

Keep your options open, do what you can and never do/offer more than you're happy with, be patient, and don't try to read other people's minds.

Good luck.

Thank you all for your replies. I know I am probably overthinking everything, I don't know if I can call myself "emotionally" attached to the property though. We just want our own home. The main reasons we want the flat are location, location, location (sorry, couldn't resist). The other flat looks in better condition (from what I could see from the photos) but we are not so sure about the location.

Stillunexpected: yes, it is a probate, I asked the EA about it during the viewing, she said it had supposedly been sworn(?) already. So technically they can sell it, right?

Sleepybeanbump: I know, the process is already killing me. We would both have been happy to keep renting for a while more, but we cannot cope with it anymore (won't go into it here, it's looooong and complicated), and we would really like to buy something and finally settle down.

Whatevva: that made me laugh, we've also been pestered by different EAs about mortgages (one got so pissed off when DH said "no thanks" he never called back to book the viewing DH had called to book in the first place. Didn't matter, as we went to see another flat in the same area with another agency and we realised we wouldn't want to move there no matter what.
We've also had one offer rejected (first property we had ever seen, that was 6 months ago) with no chance to up it, and our offer was extremely close to the asking price. That property is still on the market.
Maybe DH and I should take a leaf out of the hard nosed buyer you are talking about, just offer asking price on multiple properties and transform into Buyzillas as soon as one is accepted. ROTFL

RandomMess, Pixi2, greenbanana, PigletJohn, TheWildRumpyPumpus: thanks, we'll do that. DH has already called EA nr2 and we're going to view the other flat tomorrow. We had got the idea (don't ask me how) that it would BU to book other viewings before one's offer is rejected, I guess we have to grow a MUCH thicker skin.

Thank you all I really appreciate you taking your time to answer.

You make your offer subject to survey and re-evaluate after the survey. That was the way we did it years ago. It depends on the market though - many things change. The seller is supposed to survey it first now .

With the house we are in, we just negotiated a mutually agreeable price and worked together to get it through. They were good sellers. Nice house, no messing

"I asked the EA about it during the viewing, she said it had supposedly been sworn(?) already. So technically they can sell it, right?"

I don't understand the term 'sworn'. Where are you? In England, Wales and Northern Ireland we have the same process with regard to property sales/purchases and I've never heard of the term 'sworn' (having worked for EAs in England).

But if you're in Scotland - or elsewhere in the world - then they have different processes.

Don't forget though, that, in general, EAs are working for the Vendors. It is up to the EAs to get the best price (and overall situation) for the people who are selling.

Unless you are paying the EAs a fee as Purchasers, they will take their client's (i.e. the Vendors) instructions about how they wish to proceed.

Also, you mentioned it's a probate sale. They can be extremely complicated if there are problems with the Will/beneficiaries.

Presumably, they mean that the executors have handed in the forms to the Probate registry and sworn their oath, which is part of the process. I am not sure that this means you can automatically sell the house though - you will still need the Grant of Probate. It just means the process is well under way.

FruSirkaOla: I am in England. I looked up what "Subject to Grant of Probate" (or similar wording) some months ago because it was in the details of a property we were going to view, and I vaguely remember something about an oath like Whatevva says. On the other hand, I might have misunderstood what the EA said.

Whatevva: I thought the vendor's survey was compulsory only in Scotland?
Lucky you btw, here we've met all sorts, mainly "motivated sellers" who haven't even started looking at other properties. I wonder if it's some kind of sex fetish involving showing one's home to total strangers and having them opening one's cupboards and measuring room sizes, usually the "I'm so happy here I'm never going to move" talk comes after we've wasted 20 minutes. Nowadays we ask if the seller has found somewhere else when we book, or book vacant properties, saves a lot of time.

I quite understand the concept of an offer being provisionally accepted, subject to the Probate being expedited reasonably swiftly. That's not particularly unusual at all. It was the expression 'sworn' that nonplussed me - especially if there are other potential purchasers also willing to make similarly good offers.

It was the expression 'sworn' that nonplussed me - especially if there are other potential purchasers also willing to make similarly good offers.

Ok, I see. I've found the link I had looked up way back when:
Swear an oath
The probate office will send you an oath and details of how to arrange an appointment. You’ll need to swear the oath at either:

the office of a commissioner for oaths (usually a solicitor)
a local probate office
The oath is a promise that the information you’ve given is true to the best of your knowledge.

You should get the grant through the post within 10 working days of swearing the oath.

(btw it's on
www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/applying-for-a-grant-of-representation
if anyone wants to learn more about the process)

I think it was the last sentence I have copied here that led me to think that everything is fine once the oath is sworn.

Moot point anyway, DH just called and said they're selling to party nr2. EA said our offers were exactly the same, still don't understand why the sellers didn't fish for a higher price.

Ask them why they chose the other party over you? Make them squirm and see what they have to say.

You get a grant of probate and sign a form ( swear it's true) - I did it when my father died. Then we sold the house. It was not more complicated just because someone had died.
Sorry you llost the property. There will be others along soon. It can be very frustrating. One of my children is buying at the moment and unless you have been through it before there are lots of aspects you won't know. No reason why you could. The worst is most people are inefficient slow and unpredictable and also untl contracts are exchanged anyone can change their mind in England.

Maybe the other party are cash buyers and so can complete quickly without worrying about mortgage/surveys etc.
M

When people are buying and selling houses, they do all sorts of weird and inexplicable things. In an Executor's sale, there might even have been a member of the family who said "I'll match whatever offer you get"