Kitchen plans - comments please!

[PingPongBat]

Here's the overhead of my first draft kitchen plan. (I've cut the bottom off as it's got my home address on it!).

We've got a new utility room being built into the back end of the garage with a connecting door from the kitchen. This door could be moved to the right, so that it opens into the corner of the utility room instead, but it has to stay on this wall as there's nowhere else it will go in the house.

The door at the top right leads into the garden.
The doors at the bottom of the plan are, from left to right - utility room, cupboard under stairs (has 3 shelves which are currently used as a sort of larder cupboard), & door into the hall.

Washing machine / tumble dryer will be in the utility room.

My current concerns are:

• lack of counter space to the left of the hob
• do the oven and fridge freezer have to be separated by a cupboard? At the moment we have them next to each other but the designer recommended we change this
• fridge freezer is a bit tucked away in the corner, so...
• would putting the oven right next to the utility room door, thus freeing up some counter space to the left of the hob, & then putting a wide fridge freezer where the cupboards are in between the doors, be a more practical layout?

As you can see I've already got some thoughts on potential changes, but I'd be interested to hear anyone else's

Hi - very unusual for a designer to put the oven where it blocks the doorway when open - but if this is the option you go for - if you hinge the utility door on the side nearest the oven opening into the utility rather than into the kitchen it might lessen the accident potential .

Have you got a dishwasher there? If so, just think about how close the cupboards are for crockery when unloading the dishwasher. And what about saucepans? I've found two large saucepan drawers really useful.

I agree, the oven going right by the door might be difficult - don't you want it next to your hob?

OnePlan - yes that door will open into the utility room, with hinges next to the oven. I can't see that being a high traffic area. When preparing food I'll be standing to the right of the hob, as that's the longest single length of counter space (around 900mm). And I'm the only one who does the washing, and the washing machine & dryer are going in the utility room!

I can see that the oven is a bit tucked away, so we may still block off the cupboard door & shuffle the larder cupboard & fridge freezer over a bit, to create more space by the utility room door.

wickedwaterwitch - dishwasher is under the sink, & pan drawers will be under the hob

I definitely need to see a 3D version of this to visualise how it will all feel.

DHstill in bed after late night out so may not be able to get his input until tomorrow!

Would one of those slide-and-hide ovens where the door folds away be useful, like on the Bake-off? It is tucked away but the oven isn't exactly the busiest location in the kitchen and you have a good place next to it to put things down.
The only thing might be what about using the grill, does the oven door have to be open for that in the top combi thing?

If you blocked up that under stairs door, you could have a wider but more shallow larder cupboard that might crowd the table a bit less. One of these but trimmed down to say 400mm deep and with a load more shelves.

sorry for obsessive interest btw, have been stuck at home with DS doing homework all day, any distraction welcome.

Good point about the grill - will find out. And will look into shallow larder units.

Be as obsessed as you like, I value the feedback!

Could you access the utility room from another way ? As you could have a return run of tall cabinets including your oven - storage and FF if you lost that door ?

That would be a great solution OnePlan, if only we had another practical place to have that door! We've thought and thought about it, but I really do want access from the kitchen, for ease of access and every day use.

We could move the door next to the cupboard-under-the-stairs door, but that doesn't give us enough length on the return for the oven and FF side by side - there'll only be 900mm, possibly less. This is what Howdens came up with.

If we were to lose the door, and get extra space on the return, the only other places a door would fit are (a) at the bottom of the stairs, in the hallway - but this wouldn't be directly into the utility it would be into the remaining front portion of the garage, so we'd need another door from the garage into the utility; or (b) use the existing door which goes into the garage, by our front door, again we'd need another door from the garage into the utility. And both of these options would negate the easy access to the washing machine & fridge freezer in the utility room.

There are compromises to be made whichever option we take!

Did they give you a plan, showing the sizes ? Or is there a better image that shows the utility set up too ?
There must be a safer way to solve this !! Putting the oven there just is an accident waiting to happen. PM me sizes if you prefer. Do you have an overall floor plan ( like on rightmove) from when you bought the place ?

Could you simply swap the fridge and oven? Then the person walking through the utility door might bump their nose on the fridge but at least won't get a hot lasagne dropped on their foot. Problem then is a put -down space for what you've just taken out of the oven, although people do have those wall-of-oven features which must have a similar issue.

If there was no door on the utility so it was a kind of "alcove" would it be a better situation - as there will always be visibility of what's going on. Or a glass door?

We could swap the fridge and oven, yes. I don't think having somewhere right next to the oven to put something down is a deal breaker. I was wondering about that today, DH was worried that we wouldn't have enough room to open the oven while facing it, but we have about 900 - 1000mm between the front of the oven and the units opposite it.

The builder said we need a self-closing fire door between the utility & kitchen - building regs apparently. I think this is because we've only asked for a basic dividing wall between the utility & the garage. (Our neighbours had a fire door fitted between their kitchen & utility & they just took the automatic closure thing off anyway!). A glazed fire door might be a good idea.

The utility set up is up for grabs - we've got a very rough idea but the current plan doesn't really take into account the boiler which is already there, & a small window we think we will add on the outside wall.

We bought this house in 1996 - before rightmove - so no floor plans, sadly! I'll see if I can get something up with measurements.

Re swapping with fridge - ideally you want a small surface to set hot things down either next to oven or within 1200mm opposite it ... It's a guideline rather than a rule here in UK - if you were in USA for example - it would break code as it is drawn and if you swapped for fridge and would not be allowed.

I think I'd have a more traditional hob with oven under and leave the door to the utility in the hall. That way you can have more wall and floor cupboards along the bottom wall (inc the fridge freezer integrated next to the pantry) and loads more work surface space, whilst retaining room for a table.

The fridge would be a bit marooned in that corner but having said that , our fridge is in a corner, we manage, you just get used to it. there are a few excuse-me moments as it's next to the dishwasher but all kitchens have their compromises.

OPOH is it against building regs or something to have the oven by a door or just good practice (obv for very good reason)? I mean from a mitigation point of view - not a through route, choose appliances so doors don't need to be left open for grilling or oven use, visibility panel in the door, plenty of width to walk past even if the grill is in use - maybe budge the utility door a little to the L?

It's not a good idea to put the oven right next to that door as its the only access and exit to the laundry room, so it's a through route - and more importantly - the escape route if there's a fire in the laundry.

Like I said - it's unusual for an experienced designer to suggest that - but sometimes you might not be dealing with someone who's as experienced as others - someone who just simply sees it as a solution to give the client more space to the left of their hob like they asked .

It would probably be picked up ( I'd like to think ) further down the order process.

I've just realised it was suggested by a MN'er on here - believe me I'm not picking holes or getting at anyone - I'm just trying to let you know this isn't particularly safe .... My aim is to keep original poster and their family safe.

I love how you peeps all help each other offering up design ideas !

Just please make sure, especially if going for a trade or do it yourself cheap and cheerful project, that you get your plan safety checked by someone you know is experienced and can alert you of things like this before you order anything .

OnePlan - I really appreciate your concern, which I share, about the safety issue of the oven near the door. I will discuss with the kitchen man on Wednesday when I go back to see him. I've found glazed fire doors online so we could use one of them, wherever we end up putting the oven.

If we put the oven between the doors at the bottom of the plan, then we would be around 1000mm from the work surface next to the hob, on the left hand wall, but around 2000mm to the opposite work surface.

trinityblue I'm trying to avoid an under counter oven if I possibly can due to issues with a weak back / bending to lift heavy items, and the fact that this kitchen will have to last until I'm nearly 70 years old!

I'm going to move some of my counter top appliances around this week, in an attempt to mimic some of the options for where I would do all my food prep, including reducing the amount I have along that left hand wall, by going back to the original design at the top of the thread.

I stand corrected - I certainly wouldn't want to lead anyone into an unsafe situation and I'm no professional by any means.