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Original poster

Tenant disaster. Any ideas?

54 replies

CalliopeTorres · 28/09/2015 16:39

I've had a few threads about my shitty tenant and the best way to approach things and you've all been great but things have come to a bit of a head and any further advice would be appreciated. It appears tenant has been arrested for breaking and entering a building on the same street? Afaik he has been bailed to a different address. I went past the property today after being unable to contact him and noticed a broken window at the back of the property. I eventually contacted him, he told me another story why he wasn't in the property and he said he was unaware that there was a broken window however he said I may access the property to make it secure. I have done this. I have also contacted the police on 101 and they said he will not be returning to the property and I should give him 2 weeks to collect his stuff or dispose of it and I'd be within my rights to do so. That's not correct is it? I want him out but I want him out by the book. He's ruined the property and the area by the sounds of things (neighbour had plenty to say on the subject).

OP posts:

lalalonglegs · 28/09/2015 17:29

It doesn't sound right and, as his tenancy would come under civil law, the police might not be the best people to advise. Is he within his AST term still or on a periodic tenancy? Does he want to stay? I don't know the back story but it might be worth asking if he would prefer to give up the tenancy as he is no longer living there. If not, then you can either serve a S21 if he is nearing the end of his AST or is on a periodic tenancy or a S8 if he has fallen two months behind with the rent.

lalalonglegs · 28/09/2015 17:30

I forgot to say, if he is no longer living there, he may be in breach of his tenancy as there is usually a clause about not leaving the property empty but enforcing it could be sticky.

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 28/09/2015 17:35

He's on a rolling periodic tenancy, I thought it didn't sound right, I will serve the s21, i know it has to be done on the correct dates etc however his rent is paid 4 weekly by the council so never on the same date each month so I'm a little confused when to serve it. I have no idea if he wants to stay, I suspect he is going to end up behind bars reading between the lines of what the police were able to tell me. I don't have a current address for him either as he isn't in the property due to I assume his bail conditions so I don't know where to serve the s21. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and pay for proper legal advice here aren't I?

OP posts:

stripytees · 28/09/2015 17:41

Do you have landlord insurance? There's usually legal cover included, why not give them a ring.

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 28/09/2015 17:51

Yes we do, that's a great idea I will give them a call tomorrow.

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lalalonglegs · 28/09/2015 17:51

It used to have to be paid on or before the day rent was due and then it was two months' notice from the rent day but the rules have changed and you can serve a S21 any time you like. Serve the S21 on the property he is renting and then email him nearer the date he has to be out to make sure he has received it (he could well be visiting the property even if he isn't living there so may pick it up).

specialsubject · 28/09/2015 18:07

don't do critical stuff like this by email! There are ways to serve documents on people who may not be there, you need that proper legal advice.

as he still has keys and is out on bail, you'd better check all your insurances including malicious damage. Make sure you've done all the right things so your S21 doesn't get thrown out and be prepared for a long haul, as he may not vacate at the end of the notice. Sorry.

lalalonglegs · 28/09/2015 18:12

I'mn ot saying serve the documents by email, I'm saying check up shortly before he is due to move out to give him the chance to pack up and also have a written response in which he mentions the S21 and therefore cannot plead he didn't know about it before he was due to go. I've only served a S21 to a difficult tenant once and got a friend to video me posting it through the door of the property and then uploaded the video so it was date stamped.

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 28/09/2015 18:25

I've got a feeling he'll be at her majesty's pleasure before long so I have no idea how he is meant to vacate the property if he is banged up. The police said he can return to the property to collect belongings.

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specialsubject · 28/09/2015 19:06

that video trick is one idea. Your legal advisers will confirm so that the excuse of 'didn't get it' won't wash. Still won't stop delays of course.

if he is unavoidably detained, I think his stuff comes under the abandonment regulations. You've then got more pain of storing it, notifying him and disposing of it when nothing happens.

you need proper advice urgently, because the rent may also stop soon.

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 28/09/2015 19:10

Housing benefit continues to be paid for 13 weeks whilst the tenant is in prison or up to 52 weeks on remand. I'm going to contact legal representation in the morning.

OP posts:

Sunnyshores · 28/09/2015 20:23

Join NLA £100 for a year. Free legal advice, free S21s etc.
I recommend this to everyone ist such a small cost (Im not on commission!)

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 28/09/2015 20:33

Thank you I'll look into that. Small price to pay you're right!

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whataboutbob · 28/09/2015 21:35

Ia gree with SSHores I joined the RLA and it's already paid for itslef with free AST documents, advice line etc.

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 29/09/2015 12:33

Ok I'm probably everything everyone hates about accidental landlords but any further advice would be helpful. When the property was initially rented out to this tenant in 2009 we did it via a letting agent as we were aware we didn't know the ins and outs and hoped by doing this it would mean that everything would be done correctly. The letting agency took a deposit - I recall they said the tenant asked if he could pay it in instalments as he didn't have the whole lot up front to which we agreed (foolishly). We assumed this was dealt with, we then a few years down the line had a lot of trouble with the letting agency with them not passing he correct rent on to us etc so we took the property out of their hands (direct payments from the councils so no reason for late/missing payments etc). The deposit was not explicitly discussed as it was assumed that they had protected adequately and therefore we obviously were not expecting to receive it although they did eventually pay us money we were owed etc due to rent not passed on. They are now saying that some of that money was the deposit amount (less than half of what should have been collected) and they didn't protect it etc at all and we should have done so when we took over managing the property.

So in summing up, the small deposit that was paid was apparently never protected, firstly by the letting agent and then by us. Can we protect that amount now so that any S21 we serve is valid and enforceable? I feel so stupid. We thought we were doing the right thing by putting it in the hands of 'professionals' who it seems knew as little as we did. A warning to any accidental landlords, a whole world of pain is in store for you unless you know exactly what you are doing. We're doing our best now to sort this out and I am going to join the NLA to get their advice but any input would be appreciated.

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Sunnyshores · 29/09/2015 12:41

CalliopeTorres - yes unfortunately Agents dont lessen the responsibility or the workload and in a way I dont believe they should, at least not completely. Being a landlord is a huge responsibility and its a business - with huge risks for landlords and their tenants; you cant palm that off on someone else.

Anyway... Yes you can and should protect whatever deposit you do hold now. Use DPS its free and easy to do on-line.

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 29/09/2015 12:47

No I absolutely agree and believe me right now I'm paying for my naivety, I just wish at the time I had known about somewhere like this so I could have come for advice beforehand instead of putting my trust into a letting agent who promised the earth.

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wowfudge · 29/09/2015 12:47

We were in a similar situation where we took over management ourselves after the agent's inaction nearly lost us the tenant. We left the deposit where it was as it was protected for the tenant and just wrote to the agent to release it when the tenant moved out. We had a written agreement on deductions with the tenant as there were a number of things over and above normal wear and tear.

Consult your agreement with the letting agent - did you keep a copy? If their Ts and Cs said they would protect the deposit they should have done so. I'm pretty sure they could have added monies as collected from the tenant. You could potentially make a Small Claim against them.

Is it possible that your tenant will simply agree to give notice himself? Could save you a lot of hassle.

wowfudge · 29/09/2015 12:51

Do you now have it in writing from the agent how much of the deposit they collected from the tenant? You'll need that in case the tenant disputes it.

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 29/09/2015 12:59

Yes, it is only £180, I'd be happy to protect this amount in order to guard against any issues arising if the s21 is not abided by. I have photographic evidence of the state of the property, smashed windows etc so I would hope if it came down to it the deposit would be awarded to us. But at least if it is protected then we could move to an eviction order without delay as everything should be in order? I'm hopeful that the tenant will leave without any of this becoming an issue but I want everything to be in order and correct (albeit belatedly).

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Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 29/09/2015 13:01

The T's and C's from the letting agent said they would retain the deposit throughout the tenancy. So they were in the wrong right from the start. Argh I could kick myself for trusting a single word they said.

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wowfudge · 29/09/2015 13:29

Hope you get it sorted.

specialsubject · 29/09/2015 13:33

and again...the problem that successive asleep-at-the-wheel governments won't notice is dodgy agents. Landlords are regulated (and should be) but there are plenty of these cowboys about and no-one does anything.

do check - but unprotected deposits had to be protected by 23rd June this year, so you are too late. You could try protecting it and hope you don't have a wily tenant who will use the 'too late' clause to overturn the section 21. You could pay it all back and hope your tenant doesn't decide to sue for 3 times the deposit. You could try a section 8 for tenancy breach once he is in jail, as he then isn't occupying the property.

this link may lead you further; just a landlord blog (no, not mine!) but looks solid.

www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/i-havent-protected-my-tenants-deposit/

Original poster

CalliopeTorres · 29/09/2015 13:51

Thank you. So basically. I'm fucked. You've got to laugh else you'll cry basically...

A cautionary tale indeed.

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specialsubject · 29/09/2015 14:30

try to stay positive. These are all worst case scenarios and some can be alleviated by doing deals with the tenant. Who may also have other things to think about.

As you are probably already doing - get on to your legal people, get the right paperwork in motion, find out what is going on, get the property secured (malicious damage cover, I hope?) and basically take charge to get this sorted out and closed off.

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