Neighbour blocking shared driveway and access to garages

[Fifinella]

Sorry if this has been discussed before (I expect it has), or if I've done something wrong in the post, this is my first thread.

Me, my DP and our 2 DC have just bought and moved into a house three weeks ago with a shared drive to two garages at the back, one ours and one our neighbours. The drive is only wide enough for one car - I think it's a normal 1930s set up. We don't have a car but we bought the house intending to use the drive as access to our garage and so to the back of the house with our double pram/s and our dog. The double pram won't fit through the front door so it's pretty crucial access.

Since we moved in three weeks ago the neighbours have regularly parked in this gap effectively blocking our access to our garage. They have 3 cars they regularly block us in with, including a black cab (we're in London and the male neighbour's a cab driver) which he takes apart and regularly works on in the space.

The title deed of our house says "The property benefits from a right of way over the side passageway" and we own half of the side passageway each, so I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be parking on it and blocking it.

My DP went today to ask them to move their car and stop parking there (they do also have a car space in front of their house, which was empty at the time and often is). At first they said they'd move the car whenever we wanted, but when he asked them not to park there because obviously we don't want to have to ask them to move their car every time we want to leave the house (I'm a SAHM so that might be often!) he was told to fuck off and the daughter threatened him with her two older brothers (my DP is 33 and he's very mild mannered).

The fact they got heated so fast, swore at him, said they'd been doing it 40 years and he could fuck off, and just jumped on the defence indicates to me that they know what they're doing it wrong, but I don't know what to do about it. They said the lady we bought the house from didn't have any official disputes with them she failed to declare and so it's obviously not something she'd raised with them. The neighbours had been sweet as pie in the previous three weeks we've lived here ("what a pretty DP, what lovely eyes") so they've turned fast.

We're logging every time they park there, taking photos and looking into solicitors, but i wondered if anyone had any advice? Advice that's not "you shouldn't have bought a shared drive property in the first place" though - we can't afford to move now, we stretched to buy the house as it was.

Sorry this post is so long but someone please help? We've only been here 3 weeks and I'm wishing we'd never moved here :-(

I think something like this isn't the kind of dispute that would put people off - it's not like noisy neighbours or environmental health issues! I know I'd be grateful for something set in stone if I was looking at a new house.

To keep the peace in the short term while you get legal advice could you offer to let them park in front of your house. Doesn't need to be a permanent arrangement but might just help them back down a bit and stop you having access problems.

lapetitesiren - I personally don't think that would be a good idea at all. I don't think the OP should pander to them at all.

I think legal advice is a good idea but I would hold off on sending an actual letter until you've taken them at their word and asked them to move it every time you need to get past. A letter might escalate things and they did say they would move it every time (I know they were total arses afterwards). Hopefully once they realise just how often you come and go maybe they will stop parking there.

We had something similar with a shared passageway neighbour refused said he'd always parked there, swore and yelled at me when I was pregnant pushing ds1 in a buggy he also yelled shouted and generally made a total arse of hi.self but actually never parked their again. Under no circumstance give them.permission to park in front of your house spend £200 getting a wall built create a pretty front garden and repeatedly ask them to move esp at teatime

We have a similar set up. Our neighbour accesses his garage and we never do, so the general agreement is that he can park there when he likes and we might occasionally let a visitor park there. We would never need him to move though, so seems fair enough.

I did consider letting them park in our drive but we definitely won't. We want the space for visitors, I don't want to risk hitting their car with our pram or make something else to worry about as we manoeuvre the pram, I don't know what the legal or insurance ramifications would be if they hit something on our property with our permission to park there and we don't really want their car outside our front window, I don't want to set a precedent (chances are one day we will get a car and they don't seem to understand they can be doing something for 40 years and then have to stop it!) and obviously now I wouldn't because they're mean! There is lots of space for them to park in the road, it's just a busy road so they don't want to.

lighteningirl I hope they don't park there again but I think they will - the daughter seemed like she would just to prove a point. I'm sorry you had the same thing

I know we're just going to have to ask them to move the car every time we want to use their car, to make a point and to actually be able to use the access, it's just going to be horrid, neither me or DP is good at confrontation and they've just been so unpleasant so far. The one time we've asked it took the man a while to move as well and that's not what you want when you're waiting to get a hungry screaming baby, a tired toddler and often a mud-soaked dog home in the rain!

Mud soaked dog could rub against the car whilst waiting.

"their car" in the third paragraph = "the access", obviously! We really don't want to use their car! that would be a whole new thread...

Rights of way cannot be removed, even if someone doesn't use it for 20 years it stands.

There seems to be a glitch on it at the moment but wander over to GardenLaw and see what other situations are similar to yours re rights of way here

This is the problem with this set up, the person you bought from probably didn't have a car and so your neighbour parks in the access. The daughter, who sounds lovely , then uses your space to turn her car. Unbelievably cheeky.

I wouldn't care if I had to sell something to pay for it but I would get a wall up pretty darn quick to box in your garden therefore denying her access to the area outside your property to turn her car.

Sadly these cases can come down to who shouts loudest. We live ooop norf so I am not sure whether you can report the behaviour of the man to the black cab company.

But hold off on the solicitor until you do more research on what happens if they ignore the letter telling them to leave the right of way clear. These things can cost thousands (I used to read a lot of GardenLaw)

You would be able to report the man to your local councils licensing unit/department as above post suggests. Xx

Council won't be interested. What they are doing is obstruction of a right of way. You can get a solicitor to send them a letter before action explaining that their actions are illegal and requesting they stop or you will apply for an injuction against them parking there. If they ignore this, your solicitor would have to apply to the court for an injunction, then if they breach it, go back to court to get them fined. It could all cost you a lot of money and they could just not turn up to court/ refuse to pay your costs and it would all drag on for a long time. Then you would have to declare the dispute if you ever moved house. Worth thinking carefully about. You could contact a solicitor with expertise in these matters and see what they suggest... maybe an alternative route like mediation?

I would put a nice fence up where the front wall was (with a gate for front door access) and one from the front corner of your house to the front IFSWIM.
It should be a lot cheaper than a brick wall and wouldn't e blocking access to the gap between the houses.
They have a brick wall the full width of their house at the front so you can too.

Narcheska the cabbie is almost certainly self-employed - most black cab drivers in London are.

I would resolve the main right of way issue before you start building walls or fences to enclose your front garden as that can be seen as upping the ante and make them more resistant to coming to an amicable solution. Just do as you originally planned to and save up to build the wall when the finances allow, rather than being seen to engage in tit for tat action.

If you have a right of way they are not allowed to block it. That goes for all rights of way.

I think you should post this on the garden law website forum. The people there are very helpful. I worked out my complicated right of way issue on there! Just Google garden law forum and it comes up. Also reading it is a real eye opener as to how awful people can be! Your neighbours sound dreadful.

A good place to start is to look at what their deeds say. You can download them from the land registry.

Even if you're planning to put a wall up later, put some fencing up now - you can get it pretty cheap, with pillar supports that screw down onto the concrete - you have kids you're getting into a double buggy, so it's fair enough to fence your front garden off - that'll stop the daughter using it as her own private turning circle (and is completely reasonable - pot plants make it very obvious what you're doing)

They have offered to move whenever you need them to. Take them at their word and keep asking them to move so you can get out with the pram etc. hopefully they will get the message and change their behaviour.
Try this way first before getting legal.

Really feel for you - we've looked at houses with this arrangement and wondered about the scope for disputes.

My advice would be to try and talk to the parents when the daughter is not there.

Just say that although you haven't got a car, you own as much of the drive as they do, and if they're detrmined to stop you using it, although you don't want to do it and want everybody to have free access, if you can't have it, why should they - ask them if they would prefer it if the drive was divided by a fence so that nobody could drive around the back?

If that fails - hire a car and park it in the access.

If they damage it call the police - the hire company will take them to court

Good luck though, whatever you do

It’s a plan about the hire car though my DP has form minorly damaging hire cars so I’m not sure the hire car company would believe it wasn’t him!

Thank you for all the advice. Since my DP spoke to them they haven’t blocked the access (albeit with some grumpy voices and what sounded like a family meeting out there, I was scared to look!) so I am vey much hoping that’s it and all the rudeness was just temporary defensive bluster and they’ve gone away and thought about it. That might be optimistic though, Tuesday is one of the days the father often seems to block the way with his taxi, put the bonnet up and get under the whole thing on a board to start working on it so we’ll see what happens.

The advice on here has been fab, so thank you all so much. We’re definitely now prioritizing landscaping the front, and now know that if they do keep blocking the way our home insurance will cover a dispute over it with a solicitor, which is reassuring and something we wouldn’t have thought of, and also know the existence of the garden dispute website.

We’ll also try asking them to move every time if they are parked there and hopefully annoy them into submission, though I hope it doesn’t come to that because I think having to go round to them might stop me going out as often as I really would want to if we didn’t have to ask.

It’s a shame that we feel like we’ve seen their true colours, it hasn’t exactly endeared us to them which isn’t the best with neighbours, and I don’t think they’re going anywhere soon.