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I've been had by my landlord and it seems he has form! Advice please?

57 replies

NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 01:46

Serious essay – Advance warning!

So where to start....

Rented a house just over a year ago on an original 6 month AST.

The house was not perfect but all of the issues SEEMED aesthetic.

The landlord gave the impression that he had been living in the house and that he wanted a 'family' as they look after houses more than singles and students. It turned out, on later talking to the neighbours, he had been renting the house out continually over 8 years.

The housing market is hot around here. This was literally the only house at the time which was not agency managed. This made it more attractive and slightly cheaper.

Rent was £450 per week versus the local market rate of £480/£490.

He knew the house was slightly dated and said that he had reduced the rate to reflect this. On starting the tenancy he said we were free to add a lick of paint so we did! We covered over internal and external damp trusting that he had told the truth about them being rectified issues. We paid for a professional deep clean and a carpet clean. One of the walls with so called 'old' damp was also crumbling so we patched this up and as the house is quite large the bill came to around 2.5k for all of this as the labour price was naturally quite a lot.

One month in no problems!

A chunk of garden fence was missing; the landlord had said he didn’t want to ask the neighbours to fix it as they were really nice people who ran out of money after renovation work. Their dog bit my child! Of course, turns out the fence was his.

A toilet didn’t work. He said he would fix it, it was just a single part issue. Similarly, a light switch (pully) didn’t work for one of the upstairs bedrooms. He called his builder round on multiple occasions to ‘quote’ for work. Of course nothing ever got done and on one visit he basically told me to leave the room. I hung around and despite my landlords best effort, I saw a half built flat in the roof! I assume the toilet and the electrics didn’t work as they had to be re-routed to supply the flat.

Lots of little niggling issues crop up. There are ceiling leaks which literally means a shower comes into the room on heavy rain. It comes through a stained roof area, again, apparently damp which had been corrected!

The house is infested with rodents which becomes more apparent as the weather gets colder.

There is damp covering one whole ceiling, two internal walls and even kitchen cupboards which touch the ground. Mushrooms are now accompanying it!

I am telling him all of the issues and as I start suspecting him at this point, a lot of correspondence is intentionally written via email!

Anyway, around this time we finally get approved for a mortgage. Being what we now know as unnecessarily honest, we let the landlord know. He tells us that he would like to take the opportunity to sell so we remain on a rolling contract on the condition we allow viewings. This works out quite well for us in real terms!

He places the property on the market with the famous London agents who over over over inflate vendors expectations. In 3 months he gets 1 viewing!

We find a place and give him a months notice. He says he will be travelling so our deposit will take a little longer to return, no problem though all okay, we have been good tenants, not on his back for risk of being chucked out, ridiculously clean and rent always on time.

One day later we get 4 calls on a Saturday to view the house which we allow. The following week I am inundated with honestly around 30 calls to view, some of which I allow and some of which I don’t because of convenience and routine with 3 small children. The landlord didn’t even bother to communicate that he had put the house back on to let. Agents walk around promising my furniture as part of the let and this is when I find out the property is on for rent again. None of this is my business or makes any difference to me apart from the fact the level of viewings AND number of phone calls is just too much. I give the agents keys and say you can view anytime during the day Mon-Fri but please otherwise leave me alone. I will be gone in a few weeks regardless and you can do as you like.

I also need to mention that the landlord and the agents now reckon the house is worth £650 per week. In such a hot market, even at that price, any house on the market for any longer than a week has issues or is hugely overpriced! In the month we allowed viewings he had no lets.

Fast forward to our move out day. It’s the Sunday before the bank holiday. I underestimated how much rubbish we would make and how much we would throw away. Because it was the bank holiday I couldn’t get collection arranged for the Monday morning so I went back to the house on Monday to bag all the items as neatly as possible on the driveway with the aim to arrange collection for Tuesday morning which I did! As I was on the driveway, I literally saw my landlord who’s on holiday might I add, turn the corner! He drove straight by and pretended he couldn’t see me! It felt like I was in a movie scene.

Of course he had to say something at this point so an hour later I got a message saying he had rearranged his holiday dates to come back and see us earlier to ensure we could get our deposit back faster!

Fully acknowledging he was a bullshitter at this point, I said brilliant, seen as were all here, lets do the inventory now to make this even more efficient. He said he was actually quite upset with us due to my rejection of 30 viewings a week and that he would rather not see us and could we just drop keys through the letter box. After a lot of eye rolling we did. We had no choice.

After various calls, texts and emails asking when we would receive our deposit back, we didn’t hear a word from him until a letter came to my work place basically saying we will not be getting our deposit of around £2k back as he will be taking that away from the £6k we owe him.

We owe him £1.5k in loss of rent due to not allowing viewings all day. We owe him another 3.5k for him having to remedy our terrible paint work and we owe him the rest because of some sought of issue with how we gave him notice!

I suspect the ridiculousness of this figure is an attempt at reverse psychology where we say ‘OK please just keep our deposit and be nice and write of the other 4k’.

I would actually like to be compensated for the money we wasted on effectively covering damp! My poor, once animal loving child is now terrified of animals. After everything I am so angry at this fraudster and I would like to take him to court.

My questions are….

The house had not been decorated in at least 7 years! I suspect he had to repaint because the agents said you will not achieve £650 per week or even the £450 we were paying with damp spots ALL OVER the house. The agents have some lovely pictures on their website which display our perfectly normal paint job and lots of beautiful damp if you know where to look! This bad paint job was so bad you used pictures of this to put a £1,000,000 house on the market might I add. Can I use these in court?

Can I request witness statements from my neighbours and the estate agents with regards to the condition of the property?

One neighbour suggested he has done similar before? Can I request information from our tenancy deposit schemes to see if this is a pattern?

Can I take him to court without paying tons. We are broke for a long while after this house move?

Lastly I suspect my money is gone! I have been doing some research and apparently he used to be a hotel owner. It looks as though his business went under and if the vast majority of his reviews are anything to go by, he has form for being an aggressive, lying bully. A lot of dishonest behaviour is described by his hotel guests. I am confident I am dealing with a fraudster, can I use this information to build a case.

Any other advice, does anything stand out? What do I need to prove/disprove? What can I claim for? How can I claim? Can I get any legal assistance?

Much appreciated and hopefully this thread can help those who may find themselves in similar positons.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 28/04/2015 12:00

I too think it's likely the neighbours are responsible for the dog bite.

Not sure about the boiler - what was wrong with it? If it wasn't has safe then reporting him to the Gas safe people will be more useful.

Lying about having treated issues is normal and probably not actionable - dodgy landlord. Do you have it in writing how he claims to have treated the damp?

HeyDuggee · 28/04/2015 12:09

damp is not the landlord's responsibility at all, unless you can prove it is structural damp. there are specialised surveyors but they are very expensive and start around £250 where I live.

most damp is caused by lifestyle and it is a standard clause in most contracts that it is the tenants' responsibility to ventilate the property adequately to assure it is not damp. don't go down the route, as most damp is caused by the amount of water released into the air through washing, cooking, bathing, breathing, etc.

the dog bite has nothing to do with the landlord - do not bring that up. regardless of whether the fence needed mending or not, it was your neighbors' responsibility to secure their aggressive animal. If it bit your child, you should have called the police and insisted the animal be put down (unless the neighbors could argue it was a provoked attack, etc.)

HeyDuggee · 28/04/2015 12:13

Also all this talk about his character and his past business - completely unprofessional and nothing to do with your case. Keep it factual. This is the condition upon move in (as per inventory). This is the condition upon move out (as per inventory). We did X viewings in Y days and refused X viewings in Z days. Remember, you don't need to agree to any, and most likely the mediator will dismiss it.

The rest of the stuff will be thrown out by the mediator. If the Landlord doesn't agree (and he doesn't have to), then you open up a small claims case and he will need to prove to the court what he's claiming. Which he can't.

HeyDuggee · 28/04/2015 12:17

forgot to add, stop stressing about whether or not he's spent your deposit. not your problem, and if he's really the character you suspect he is, he may just be stalling until he's rented the place so that he can refund your deposit with the next tenant's deposit (which isn't legal, as he needs to have a separate account for it in the scheme he's using.)

NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 14:01

Lol not stressing about whether he has spent the deposit or not, I'm simply making the point that, if I pursue him through the TDS the outcome in terms of the cash I actually receive may be negligible since I am sure he doesn’t actually have the money!

The reason for actually enquiring about whether I can take him to court is I am assuming the courts can go after his assets (although I could be way off here) meaning that when it’s all said and done I get something versus headache either way, and nothing!

For a small claim, the amount of evidence gathering I have to do will be similar to that needed to claim my deposit back from the TDS. One thing I can claim is the fact that for every day he delays our unlawful return of our deposit, we have to incur costs.

All the other points mentioned, were things I asked for clarification as to whether I could claim. Having read everybody’s response, it’s clear I can’t!

But, in terms of a small claim, statements form neighbours about the condition he kept his property in over the years, statements form the agents about the condition of the property in terms of the positioning and severity of the damp and leaks and other clear dilapidations are all things I could use, especially against the backdrop of spending a lot of money very recently, to spruce up 'our home'.

I am sure a Landlord has certain responsibilities by law and the safety of tenants is one. The boiler was declared ‘unsafe for use’ by British Gas and tenants they don’t correspond with you. The spoke to him and he did nothing about it. He didn’t even know if we had a Co2 alarm. We had mushrooms growing out of walls. We could have not caused this level of damp in 3 months! We had ceilings covered in damp and rain water literally coming through the roof! This is not damp which we could have caused and the pictures verify this. To be honest, I think I’m using the term damp too freely and I need to be saying long term 'leaks'. All issues that were clear cut damp problems were on external walls in line with guttering.

OP posts:
HeyDuggee · 28/04/2015 14:30

Your posts are a little bizarre OP. How can you possibly be sure he doesn't have your deposit to refund, unless he's specifically said so?

You're right about the boiler but that has nothing to do with your deposit. You want to take him to small claims for compensation in addition to obtaining your deposit, but it's not clear what you want compensating for... Did you stay in temporary accomodations and pay double rent? You're not going to be compensated for having a stressful time of it in small claims court, so I'm a bit lost.

Rubyrooo · 28/04/2015 14:32

The problem is, you should have address these damp/boiler/fencing issues as and when they were a problem - not now, after you have moved out.

And as others have said, you voluntarily did the additional 'work' to the property - presumably to make life more enjoyable to you whilst you were there - it'd be hard to show your 'loss' given you improved the property and had the benefit of that whilst you were there.

Even if you did get a judgement against him in the small claims court, he is unlikely to pay. You would then have to pay to get bailiffs appointed to seize goods or lawyers to register a charge over property (if he agreed - which is unlikely) which is likely to cost you far, far more (in time and energy) than you would ever get back.

Just focus on getting your deposit back and, as Hey Duggee, give the facts, not the emotional side of things. And next time, as soon as problems arise and aren't fixed, give notice to your landlord and fine somewhere better!

NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 14:34

for every day he delays the unlawful return of our deposit, we have to incur housing costs.

We have just bought and we relied on our deposit fo repair works. We cant move into the house unitl those works are done. It will take 3 months to be able to save our deposit, especially as we now have to spend MORE money on keeping a roof over our heads.

Its cashflow.

OP posts:
NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 14:36

Ruby thanks All the other points mentioned, were things I asked for clarification as to whether I could claim. Having read everybody’s response, it’s clear I can’t!

OP posts:
NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 14:39

But in terms of 'just moving out', who has money to do that and contractually it’s just not that simple. This is why renters find themselves stuck in such difficult situations and honestly you can’t win. Do people that give this advice currently rent or have any real idea of the rental market form a tenant’s perspective?

OP posts:
NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 14:50

But in terms of 'just moving out', who has money to do that and contractually it’s just not that simple. This is why renters find themselves stuck in such difficult situations and honestly you can’t win. Do people that give this advice currently rent or have any real idea of the rental market form a tenant’s perspective?

Also I understand how to present a case. As I have previously said, I am presenting a scenario to mumsnet in order to paint a picture to receive advice from those that may know more than I do, specifically about tenant’s rights. Of course a court of law would be different and evidence has no space for emotions!

What I do have are pictures and emails which disprove him covering up a bad paint job was even in the top 5 things he needed to do to be order to rent the house out again. This shows he is delaying the return of my deposit and for every day he doesn’t, we have to incur costs.

If I had a case, it would revolve around that and I understand that trying to get our decorating costs back are pointless as well as anything for the dog bite.

As per my OP..

  • Can I request witness statements from my neighbours and the estate agents with regards to the condition of the property?

One neighbour suggested he has done similar before? Can I request information from our tenancy deposit schemes to see if this is a pattern?

Can I take him to court without paying tons. We are broke for a long while after this house move?

Lastly I suspect my money is gone! I have been doing some research and apparently he used to be a hotel owner. It looks as though his business went under and if the vast majority of his reviews are anything to go by, he has form for being an aggressive, lying bully. A lot of dishonest behaviour is described by his hotel guests. I am confident I am dealing with a fraudster, can I use this information to build a case.

Any other advice, does anything stand out? What do I need to prove/disprove? What can I claim for? How can I claim? Can I get any legal assistance *

One poster explained that it would be me having to instruct bailiffs rather than the courts which I did not know. That for instance, is something that obviously makes me readdress my plans!

Does anyone know what happens if he doesn’t pay our deposit back into the scheme?

OP posts:
Nolim · 28/04/2015 15:02

Op can you please point to where it says that the deposit can be deposited at a later date? Everywhere i rad that the ll has 30 days to put the deposit into the scheme.

Rubyrooo · 28/04/2015 15:04

As far as I'm aware, you get your deposit back with interest (although given current interest rates, this is going to be minimal, if any). You won't get compensation for the delay, YOU have to claim it all back quickly. Info should be in the information that the landlord/agent gave you at the outset, when your deposit was protected.

The bad paint job is just evidence towards getting your deposit back - I think a judge would not consider a small claim made by you as (a) you haven't suffered loss as I set out above, and (b) the deposit should be repaid to you by the deposit scheme - a court would not get involved in this.

Why on earth would you need witness statements from your neighbours? The deposit scheme are highly unlikely to need this. You should sent them your photos as evidence and receipts to show decorative work was done.

For data protection issues, the deposit scheme will not release any other info about your landlord's other deposits to you. Also, there is no legal aid for civil claims - you would be paying court fees and additional costs yourself.

As others have said, and I've said before, you do not have a claim against him for doing work to the property while you were there. You do not have any legal basis for any small claim so far as I can see. You WILL end up further out of pocket if you are trying to pursue a 'man of straw'.

If the deposit is not in a custodial scheme, it'll be in an insurance one, either way you do not have to worry about the landlord having spent it.

you need to get on top of the deposit stuff without making things overly complicated with thought of small claims courts.

Azquilith · 28/04/2015 15:13

Renting is awful, and I sympathise. Having rented for years I never trust a landlord - if it's not perfect when you move in, it won't be fixed. Unless it's something major like no heat or hot water, issues probably won't be fixed quickly once you're in.
It should be relatively easy to get your deposit back, irrelevant whether he's spent it as it's yours. He can't charge you for lost income on not allowing viewings, you don't have to allow any viewings at all and I've always negotiated a rental drop during that period if they wanted me to allow it.
But unfortunately you won't get anything else for your decoration etc. it will be seen as your decision.

Rubyrooo · 28/04/2015 15:16

Oh yes, ^^ Azquilith is right - the landlord cannot deduct money from the deposit for days you didn't allow viewings! The deposit is held to cover damage to the property fixtures and fittings, nothing else. Just pop in your online claim for the entire amount back and let the landlord try to argue the deductions.

QuintShhhhhh · 28/04/2015 15:19

Focus on the Deposit first. You are clouding the issues with so many other issues it is difficult to follow.

He should have put your deposit in a scheme. It is not your problem if he didnt. Read more about the deposit schemes here: www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/if-your-landlord-doesnt-protect-your-deposit

The site is quite clear, it says:

"You can apply to your local county court if you think your landlord hasn’t used a TDP scheme when they should have."

Further:

"If the court finds your landlord hasn’t protected your deposit, it can order the person holding the deposit to either:

repay it to you
pay it into a custodial TDP scheme’s bank account within 14 days
The court may also order the landlord to pay you up to 3 times the deposit within 14 days of making the order."

You stand to gain 6k by doing as the .gov.uk website says.

Focus on this FIRST. Then see if you still want to sue his arse for anything else under the sun.

Just get your deposit x 3 back first.

NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 15:19

Sorry Nolim dont quite get you? It says the deposit is not held by the scheme. I didnt see a bit that said he has 30 days to put it back into the scheme tbh. I think we may be misunderstanding eachother.

OP posts:
QuintShhhhhh · 28/04/2015 15:21

Nolim said the ll has 30 days to put the deposit into the scheme.

Meaning that the LL should have done so within 30 days of receiving it from you.

So, your deposit is NOT protected, and your ll is breaking the law. Look at the links in my previous post.

NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 15:31

Azquilith and Ruby thank you.

I'm going over this and I will drop any idea of a claim outside of the TDS. Its clear from everyone’s input that I'll likely lose money. If I had nothing to lose I would at least try but that’s my personality.

Ruby he has signed up to a TDS, that says he holds the money and this is standard procedure. On the opening of a dispute, he has to put the money back into the scheme. If he does not at that point, are you saying this is where you can claim the x3? Witness statements form neighbours would be to confirm the place had not been decorated in at least 7 years and that they had shared some issues stemming from his house which he is still sitting on. Basically proving the house is a mess and bad paint, which its not, would hold very little bearing on the condition of the house. My initial though process was to prove that he knows the house is a mess and he is acting fraudulently in trying to hold us accountable for any of it thus delaying and or theft of my deposit. The consequences of this, i.e. us having to fork out additional rent because of the delay this theft has caused to our building work would have been the basis for my now non claim.

OP posts:
NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 15:32

Last paragraph in my last message should have been addressed to Quint not Ruby.

OP posts:
HeyDuggee · 28/04/2015 15:33

I have been a landlord before where I pay an annual fee to protect the deposit and then keep it in a personal but separate account rather than handing the deposit over to a 3rd party. I chose this because I'm a bit paranoid about it getting lost as I'm still liable for that deposit (tenant gave it to me, I then give it to 3rd party to hold).

Just because the landlord kept there money in one of his accounts doesn't mean it's "gone". And bad hotel reviews for one of his other businesses have nothing to do with it, so why keep bringing it up?

You still would have received a number and either a pamphlet pdf or a link to one which describes how to file a dispute for the claim he's making.

Do that.

That you have no cash flow, that this is preventing you from spending your deposit in something else is irrelevant.

Nolim · 28/04/2015 15:35

Thanks quint. Yes that is my point, the deposit is either protected 30 days after the tenancy started or not.

Op you said "Does anyone know what happens if he doesn’t pay our deposit back into the scheme?" If he deposited the deposit and then took it back and not deposited in the same of other scheme he is breaking the law, as if he didnt protected into the firts place.

Feckeggblue · 28/04/2015 15:36

If I've read this correctly OP is saying the LL registered the deposit but did not pay, at that point, the cash over to TDS. This is allowed.

Upon opening of the dispute he will be told to pay the physical cash over to TDS to hold and pay out to whomever is awarded it by their adjudicators.

So as I understand it TDS can sort this out and no need for court or opportunity to claim x3 deposit.

OP the TDS are very good. They'll look after you

NeedLegalAdvice · 28/04/2015 15:38

Sorry QuintShhhhhhh can I ask for your help.

If you go to www.tds.gb.com/tenants-overview.html and click on the tab to the left 'FAQ - My tenancy is ending' it says that the depsoit is not held by the scheme.

Does this or can it relate in anyway to your point above?

OP posts:
CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 28/04/2015 15:39

The dog bite isn't his fault...