Opinions from tenants and landlords welcome please!

[HerRoyalNotness]

This may turn into a long rant, please bear with me...

We have rented out our house in UK for past 7yrs as we moved abroad for work, so accidental landlords you'd say, we don't have a pension, so kept it, and were not supposed to be away this long. We have a property manager (PM) who manages 100s of properties and is also known to us personally as a friend.

We have not increased the rent in all those 7yrs. Tenant often pays late, we just juggle around a few things to ensure mortgage is paid on time every month and don't hassle them, they catch it up the next month generally. I have asked PM to increase the rent a couple of times before, and he has always said no, things are tight, tenant will leave.

So how often does your rent increase and by what margin? And how much of a % increase would make you leave?

This has come to a head as a few months ago, bathroom need retiling and some other things, we got those fixed. Now without any consultation, apparently taps are all broken, and the bathroom needs completely gutting, and downstairs loo also needs replacing. I got told this week, please send a cheque, here is the quote, work being done next week. No input from us about what we want in it, no warning about it. And totally wasted money on the retiling that was done a couple of mths ago. The type of problem, in my mind, doesn't happen over night. This is something that builds up over a while, so literally 3mths ago, this problem should have been seen and addressed surely!?

This leads me to think that the tenant is not informing PM of issues in a timely manner. I thought this was one of their responsibilities? Any thoughts on that? FIL has been around to have a look and a chat as PM is not computer savvy so will not send pics or email us etc... Bathroom has been leaking into kitchen, and downstairs loo into hallway. I hate to think how long this has been happening, and what other damage is done that will need to be fixed.

Now they're saying the fridge is on the blink, told this to FIL and it's the first we've heard of it.

I've asked PM to put up the rent by 50quid (currently 600), and stagger it so they can budget it, half after bathroom done, and the other half beg of 2016. He is saying don't do it. She'll move out, lots of things to do before another can move in, cost you thousands. Yes, cutting our nose for 50quid, but I'm at the end of my rope (due to lots of other things in our life, and this is just one more thing on the list to grind us down) His other argument being, she's paid x thousands of rent and you've had little maintenance issues (yep, but she's storing up trouble for us IMO, I'd rather pay a few hundred here and there over the months to keep things in good order, than be stuck with thousands, possibly tens of, with zero warning). My argument is they've had a nice, quiet time for 7yrs, no hassle from us, haven't had to move every 6/12mths, and you know, they're paying for a roof over their head. I've checked right move and there is NOTHING for rent in our area at all. The next closest property is in a less nice part of town, is terraced and is on for 700quid/mth.

Not sure what to do or think tbh. Latest is apparently they have been telling PM about issues, but nothing has been done....

Any advice for us before I email PM back?

Tenant here: sack your PM.

I have problems in my current place with the letting agents habitually ignoring our complaints. I very much doubt that the tenant has been keeping secrets about leaks, it doesn't make any sense from a tenant perspective. And I've usually expected a rent increase every year or two.

quite no, begins with K. Kind of a funny setup, the guy that owns PM co overall lives in another country, still within cooee of England, iyswim, but our friend/PM works through him. Bit funny situation.

I just checked on work they supposedly did in Jan, and on invoice is 2 WC flusher things. They are now apparently not working, and needing replaced again, and apparently can't get the parts, which FIL said 'rubbish' to. I don't know what's going on. Don't know if Tenant has damaged those deliberately, FIL saw a 6" hole punched in wall in master and tenant didn't respond when he asked about that.

and definitely we are done with them as agents. Have asked for tenancy agreement to see when rollover date is, think it's july or august, will end the PM agreement at that time. Not sure how we will go about getting a new one, but will ask FIL for help onthis. We're actually back in the UK in June, but had not intended to go up north, argh... maybe DH we'll somehow have to.

I just knew you would find the works in the bathroom hadn't been carried out to the spec you paid for by the way the thread was sounding. Definitely find out what the tenants are paying in rent. The PM's been increasing the rent and pocketing the difference I bet.

A good property manager would ask you at regular intervals whether you want to up the rent and would do a damn sight more to ensure your asset is well-maintained.

the nightmare of the unregulated agents industry - you've got a right cowboy there.

can you contact the tenant directly and get their side of it? It is indeed possible that they are ignoring all faults. It is also possible that they've told the agent about it and nothing has been done. Surprised they haven't demanded your details, but they may not be aware of their right to those.

if you also have a dodgy tenant (late rent, punching holes in walls which is NOT the behaviour of anyone reasonable) then you need to take a serious look at that.

regarding rent increases; a standard tenancy agreement will provide the option for them limited by RPI. BUT my current property hasn't gone up in two years and won't go up this year because that's the local market. My previous one had a rent that went DOWN by about 20% because at the time tenants were hard to find. With the next tenant change there was hot competition for it and the rent went back up. It is all market forces, but if you have a decent tenant I would keep increases to token. Your costs are not directly related to rent increases, harsh as it seems.

oh, and council tax on vacant houses varies by council, but unless you are in Westminster assume full payment.

much to find out here (which isn't our business on the thread) and good luck.

Lol at getting the landlords details from an agency. They simply refuse.

in that case they are breaking the law and there is action that can be taken. Use your rights. Same as you do if you are burgled, conned etc.

you cant increase rent with property as bad as it is; let the tenants leave if they want to. tho why they staying in that condition i dont know...
why isnt the rent paid on a standing order? you shouldnt be getting rent late if on a standing order.

why cant the PM use a computer? - I really dont buy that. if he cant his kids can. it isnt acceptable in today's world.

the best thing would be for your tenant to leave of own accord. I suspect if you ask them to leave they will sit tight... if they happy to live with only a microwave etc they maybe dont care that much.

give them notice to leave saying you need it vacant and to do full repairs.

or offer them the option to live there rent free or reduced while you repair everything but on basis rent will go up after. I dont think after 7 year you can just go in and do bathroom, the whole place will need re doing.

Well quite, cest. We didn't know the condition, but now we do, obviously will get everything fixed first. It is under current market rent, but obviously would not dream of charging more until it's tip top. Rest of house is tidy, kitchen cabinets ok except the one cupboard under sink, flooring looks good, but will investigate the hall floor by downstairs loo for leak damage.

I've asked fil to pass our email to tenant for them to contact us. I am going to ask them how much they pay in rent. Rent was being paid direct to PM who would then post a check to fil who would then bank it!! Very convoluted. And yes, we don't actually know what rent the tenant is paying as check is from the PM.

PM re technology, have been emailing through his DC who appears now to work for him, I can't be doing it by phone. PM will write letter, scan and have DC send by email. (Sounds like an old boss I had once!)

What a mess! But starting to sort, only need to give 2 wks notice to PM and have contacted a couple of places for fil to go visit and get a feel for them, new PMs. Fil has also offered to look after property and just use PM to get tenants when needed. Will think about this but I don't want to burden fil.

DH will phone current PM on Monday, he is furious! And can't believe the situation.

Seriously ? You don't even know what tenant is paying ?
Get someone who uses Internet banking and standing orders

We know what WE are receiving cest but I am wary if our PM is being dodgy on the money side of things..... I will find out soon. Things underway

Current PM will be fired as at end of May,
Bathroom being done this week
FIL will manage for us, and sort repairs, do regular inspections, pick up rent etc...
Electrician to go in and test wiring in kitchen, make sure it is all well.
Oven and Fridge to be replaced once electrician has been
Leaks to be fixed as top priority
Over the next 6mths, everything else will be repaired on the list

You really should know the terms of the tenancy agreement as well. Also, what about the initial deposit which should have been protected, assuming tenant has assured shorthold tenancy agreement? If you did wish to evict tenant, you'd have to serve the right documents within the right notice periods.

Good luck with it all.

DH found our copy of agreement. they are supposed to pay in advance by standing order. I assume this is to the PM as he is acting on our behalf.

Its shorthold tenancy, and mentions the tenant can give 2mths notice expiring at any time after 6mths, and may be terminated after 1st 6mths. Landlord can give 2mths at end of Tenancy. As they've obviously now been there YEARS, I assume it's 2mths notice on either side? And is it now just a rolling tenancy? Or should a new tenancy agreement be signed each time the old one expires?

(have never rented in UK before, so unsure. We rented in Canada and had a yearly rolling lease)

the bit about deposit is crossed with a dash, ie no amount entered, but later goes on to say deposit held by Landlord's agent, no mention of amount, have asked FIL to find details on this, the amount and where it is held. I'm assuming as tenant was current customer of PM at time they rented our place, that they have transferred their deposit from that property to ours.

What a bloody mess. We were in such a hurry when we moved, that we just put it all in PMs hands as someone a) experienced, and b) trustworthy.

A fool and his money, and all that...... GRRR

If it says no amount then perhaps that's good, as it is ultimately your responsibility to protect the deposit in a scheme, assuming tenancy commenced after 2007. The agent should have done that but it is still your responsibility.

After end of first tenancy agreement period you would go onto a periodic (rolling) tenancy - to evict tenant you need to serve notices, but to do so, deposit must be protected. Hence if it says no deposit value, perhaps a good thing.

You really need to get this sorted out.

No, you have to give 2 months' notice but the tenant can give one month - but it can be tricky so you probably need some professional advice given how little you seem to know. It can be a rolling tenancy but its a long time to have a rolling tenancy.

Also you need clarification on the deposit asap. You as landlords (unless your agreement with the PM says differently) are responsible for ensuring any deposit is in a protected scheme. If it isn't ultimately you could be liable to repay the tenant upto 3 times the deposit and it has implications if you want to serve notice on the tenant.

Why didn't you check all of this before now?

Because we thought it was all in hand mandy

We had engaged a professional PM, so we thought, to take care of it all. But thanks to great advice on this thread, we have a way forward out of the mess, and will get everything sorted ASAP.

Update for those who had constructive advice:

Have terminated PM
FIL will take over, have given him a list of jobs and timings to get everything sorted/fixed by end Sept.
Bathroom was renovated by PM's man, and has not bothered to do the floor, installed new units over the temporary lino, and replaced downstairs loo with white, whereas the basin is cream... Glad to have only part paid this so far and have asked the plumber directly for explanations and detailed invoice and material receipts before we pay anymore. Tenants had known new bathroom was getting put in since xmas, and couldn't believe we only found out 3 weeks ago.
Have ordered new oven
Looking for fridge, if anyone has seen integrated ones reasonably priced, please let me know! They seem to be light on the ground.

Found out from tenant, rent is indeed what we have been paid. Phew
They have paid a deposit to PM, not sure why it says no deposit on our lease with them. Once PM turns it over, will get it lodged in a DPS.

So slowly getting there. Now have to turn attention to our international move and renting out the house we are in now. Argh! Too much stress.

thanks for update.

I think you may need to return the deposit. Landlords have to lodge it in a scheme within 30 days of tenancy start. If this wasn't done you can be sued for 3 times its value and you can't issue a valid eviction notice.

please check on this with someone qualified.

PM is insisting no deposit was taken as they look after so many they don't do deposit. It was a month in advance rent paid.

I will leave that between xPM and tenant, as our lease says no deposit paid. Have signed new lease with us, and again we have no deposit incl. we've just asked they pay the month in advance.

Well you still need to check with the tenant that they didn't pay a deposit in addition to rent in advance. I'm afraid the buck stops with you as the LL if there is an unprotected deposit, even if you left things with your agent. I understand why you haven't asked for a deposit, but it could give you a headache when they come to move as there's nothing to make deductions from if you need to deal with more than just wear and tear.

Even if the original lease says no deposit?

Yes but upthread you say that the contract goes on to say that the deposit is held by the agent. Its not between the agent and tenant, the buck stops with you. I would consult a solicitor with the contract to be sure.

Gosh, you have been in a pickle.

If your FIL is the sensible DIY type, would he not be willing to be your PM? All it takes is a contact for the tenants who can arrange for repairs, and report issues to, and someone to inspect periodically.

Everything else you can pretty much handle yourselves. Even letting agents credit checks are money for old rope - it's not rocket science.

Wrt the deposit. You need to get one, and have it protected in an official scheme. I understand your original agreement says you've never taken one, but I do think morally at least you might need to step in with the PM on the tenants' behalf to find out what happened to it. You could still be liable, and it will cause bad feeling. PM is not going to be bothered sorting it now he's not acting on the house any more, and as he sounds all-round dodgy, I imagine he's pocketed it. Please insist on the tenants behalf if you can (did they sign paperwork, do they have any evidence?)

Err, sort the deposit out NOW. Its is not between the tenant + xPM. Its is between you+ tenant. If you fail to prove its held then you can be sued for 3 x deposit.

As far as rent goes, 600 sounds a lot for the NE esp. one that sounds in bad repair. Have a look on RM, and knock off 10% off the rents you see advertised.

One thing to bare in mind is that the rules on social rents have made 3bed+ houses very difficult to rent to tenants on benefits. This has had a knock on affect of making larger houses much harder to rent.

I owuld be v. careful about raising rent. You might lose the tenant, so end up being down a lot - each month void is about 8% less money.

hereandthere the OP has told us the tenants have signed a new AST. Whatever has been agreed on the rent (and we don't know) must be acceptable to them. I really don't think you can say £600 is too much for a 3 bed house in the whole of the NE!