If you were buying a property as an investment, would you buy in Stratford, London. Or elsewhere in London?

[WellTidy]

We have about 170K to invest, and, with a buy to let mortgage, can borrow about 350K or so more. Stratford sprung to mind as it already has good transport links (with Crossrail to come), Westfield and the Olympic Park on the doorstep.

We are looking to buy a flat that will rent out easily, with potential for capital growth. We don't really have time for maintenance, and don't live that locally, so we would be looking to buy new and are happy to pay the service charge.

Would you buy, say, this flat for 500K, two bed two bath, views towards Westfield and the Olympic Park?

We are also toying with buying something at around the 350K mark instead in the Royal Artillery complex near Woolwich, again as an investment, but we would have to rent it out. Any views on the investment potential for that? Crossrail is due to go there, and the cable car is already there.

Or, finally, we are considering buying two flats near where we live in the south east, at about 250-300K each. I don't think they would appreciate hugely as there is no investment coming into the area, but they would definitely rent out easily and we would be on the doorstep for maintenance and repairs.

But then Lewisham is due to have huge capital investment, and maybe that would be a good area to buy a new flat in too ...

To answer your points:

1. The OP lives in the Bromley area. They are paying taxes on their income. If this money was an inheritance it would most likely been subject to inheritance taxes. These are people who are contributing to society.

1. I do care about their nationality as a lot of foreign buyers in London buy homes there as a tax dodge. You do know that you can live in the UK and pay no taxes on income earned from business operating outside of the UK? These people live in London with huge disposable incomes in part because they are business owners but also because the income they have isn't taxed. I think that if you own a home in the UK you should be paying income taxes in the UK if your worldwide income is over a certain threshold.

1. There will always be people who can't afford or don't want to own a home. I am very thankful to a couple of the landlords I had. They were honest and good people who ran their operation professionally. I also had a couple of awful landlords and they should never have been allowed to continue operating. Also, some people choose not to own. We have bought but strongly considered. If we moved back out to the burbs we would def rent as we wouldn't be staying past the kids leaving school. Not all renters are less fortunate.

No, not all renters but I'd certainly say most.

What gives the more fortunate the right to exploit the less fortunate through property value increasing? Which is hugely subsidised by the state via housing benefit?

Le sigh.

I do agree that the London (in particular) housing situation is an absolute disgrace & many reasons have been identified on this thread. However, surely the anger should be aimed towards governmental decisions / lack of proper taxation etc rather than towards an individual landlord (potential landlord) who, after all, is trying to make the best possible investment of their money. What can someone with that amount of savings do with it in London 2015? I'm not in that position, but if I were it would cross my mind that investing in property seems to be the obvious choice of using that money. Until the moment when other solutions are equally good options and until the moment that buy to lets are actively discouraged by the state (nowadays they are actively encouraged I should think), I can't see things changing, sadly. I mean, what would you do in the OP's place?

I suppose what I'm saying is, its a political issue not an individual one of each private landlord.

The rich have never cared about anyone else having anywhere to live. That's why they've done everything possible to restrict new housing in order to keep their own portfolios' value and keep people renting at extortionate rates.

Could end up like Spain in the not to distant future with the amount of flats that are being built, as in Spain people invested in property's and didn't live there and now look at the property over there

The amount of flats being built?! Shabbycaddy, as far as I'm aware there's a massive shortage of appropriate private housing (at least in London). The property bubble that burst in Spain happened for very different reasons.

I can understand the moral argument against BTL - it is something of a widespread curse in the UK at the moment. I've lost count of the number of housing that have been bought and rented out - no problem with that apart from the new breed of LLs are terrible at maintaining their property - houses get shabbier + shabbier, they turn them in to (illegal HMOs), so you end up with a next door 4 bedder housing halfthe population of Gdansk. You get them double bunking, 3 sets of bunk beds in one room, constant noise etc etc etc.

At the moment, the yields on UK rentals means you will be on a hiding to nowhere. One month void and -poof! - no money fro the year. A rental near me has been empty since Nov-14.

You can expect housing benefit to cut whoever wins in May. Fact is, 80% of London is is on some sort of public financial support - benefits, MPs, public sector etc. You really thing any government running a ~8 budget deficit and ~8% current account deficit can keep spending money on housing benefit?

you all of course also hate those that make money out of mortgages, and believe that food, shelter and other human needs should all be free? You all work for free too?

meanwhile, outside the playground; OP, do some very hard sums here. The landlord-hate on mumsnet also extends to the politicians (especially the Greens who give a whole new meaning to hypocrisy) and one thing that may well go is the tax break on BTL mortgage interest. so if you need a mortgage for your property, look hard at whether it stacks up a) if this tax break goes and b) if mortgage rates go up. Realistic returns are 3-4% IF you don't get a rogue. Most of us only do it due to low interest rates and high inflation.

and of course all the other things; insurance, agents fees, malicious damage cover, legal expenses cover, maintenance, fixes, money for voids etc etc etc.

Stilllovingmysleep, there is a large amount of property in London that is sitting empty purely as investment, the property has purely been bought for a few purposes, store money, gain on increase when they sell in a few years to next investor and if required gain citizenship ie Chinese etc, they arnt concerned about bothering renting them out. Bit like the Brits buying Spanish flats and going out once or twice a year for holidays. I'm not convinced there is a property shortage as such, there certainly is an unbalance where anything slightly affordable is getting snapped up by people which arnt going to live in the property which have cash available. All that is happening is the gap between the wealthiest and not so is getting bigger.

I don't work for free.

I think housing esp. BTL is getting a heavily subbed interest rate at the mo. It was no accident that that most of the banks that went up in flames ove the last 7 years were heavily into BTL, with a special mention of Bradford +Bingley

The risk premium on BTL loans is too low. I expect it to go much higher in the future.

I don't really blame the individual landlords as much as the system but I really am starting to get sick of BTL, and it's not just a London problem.

In Bristol for example there is plenty of building going on, nice new flats going up around the harbourside areas and generally in the centre. The sort of thing that would be fab for young professionals, couples, first time buyers. The disgrace is that the majority of these are going to BTL landlords and because the developers know there is such demand from investors they dont even bother to register for Help To Buy before they launch for sale. I think the government should make it obligatory for all new builds to be on the scheme before they can market anything.

One developer sent me a price list and next to the purchase price of each unit, the spreadsheet stated the expected monthly rental income! This made me so angry. They're not aiming at people who want to live there at all. Then of course there was the recent news story about a Bristol estate agent contacting landlords telling them rents are booming so to put their prices up

I'm looking at moving there from London as a first time buyer but honestly the housing situation is not that much better than here!

Completely agree that massive swathes of housing are being bought up by wealthy overseas investors, with many being left standing empty. You only need to go walking around Vauxhall in London (where many blocks of flats have suddenly sprung up due in part to the relocation of the American Embassy) to witness this. And, yes, the advertising hoardings outside them are all designed to attract investors, not individuals who might actually buy and live in them!

I would vote for any party that closed down this absurd tax haven for foreign investors like a shot. Sadly none of our political parties appear to be concerned. I'm not sure why!

I can understand the desire to invest your money wisely, but I think BTL investors have to understand that what they're buying as their second or third investment property is to someone else a much longed for home. A whole generation have been priced out by and it is partly due to speculation and exactly this kind of treating property as investment.

With that budget OP I think you could look at traditional/terraced properties in more established areas rather than up and coming. Flats in conversions tend to have lower service charges than newbuild developments and they have good investment value as they can attract both young families or young professionals. It needn't be too much trouble dealing with maintenance if you use an agency.

e.g. these are both near zone 1 tubes: www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-51725279.html near Angel, £475k for 2 bed

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-50481833.html Hoxton, 2 bed £475k

Another stupid arguement - where the hell do you think you're going to live if there are no BTL properties? Or do you think properties will suddenly cost £100k and youll be able to afford one? As for tax, actually BTLS are taxed - many times. We pay tax on our earnt money and then pay tax when we spend it on a house and then pay tax when we rent it out and then pay tax when we sell it. Again tax that goes to benefit people like you who seem to expect everything handed to you on a plate. If youre going to argue about things, get your facts right. Its bloody hard work being a good landlord and Im certainly not going to do it for free.

They aren't taxed enough

Also I'm a landowner who is looking to build low income housing for many of my friends who I grew up with who can't afford the £500k homes that somehow are getting built in the village. Do you think I can get permission?!? They told me I couldn't build because they needed to be 1 and 2 bed units not 3 and 4 bed units. Doesn't matter that I don't intend to rent them out at market rates and have offered to sign an agreement stating this. Apparently I need to be reliant rent coming in from housing benefit. It's very sad that someone looking to set something up on a non profit basis can't do so.

Again tax that goes to benefit people like you who seem to expect everything handed to you on a plate.

Ah here we go again. The nice old argument, rich people like us who work hard for our money, and you plebs who 'expect everything handed to you on a plate' and sit on your arses. Yawn.

Wow the arrogance of some of these millionaire mumsnetters

Sunnyshores- could you tell me which poster your post of 18:18 was aimed at?

I would disagree that Seven Kings/Goodmayes/Chadwell Heath is booming price-wise - my flat jumped in price during the last boom, but prices have been very settled since. A lot of properties round here are Victorian semis converted into flats, notorious for mice and shoddy building work, avoid. Some purpose built flats, small new developments going up all around.

Crossrail may cause jump in prices, no-one really knows. Just for info, the Central line runs at the north end of the area, most people are nearer the main line into Liverpool Street ( eg, I'm a 25 min bus ride from the nearest Central Line station. District line to the south is a bit nearer)