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Original poster

house hunt advice please---accessing the house via neighbours drive

23 replies

Emily2222 · 23/03/2015 08:32

hi there
as posted yesterday, we found a nice bungalow in enfield..apparently the house was built over 20 years ago in the garden of a end-of-terrace house and has its own land etc (so it is formally isolated from the original house). however accessing the house is via the end-of-terrace house's driveway!

I did a land registry search and theres no other way of getting into the house apart from via the neighbour's drive (see figures - red is the house we are interested in, blue is the original end-of-terrace house; green arrow is how you would drive your car into the house).

the vendor did say vaguely 'if you need to get an extra car in, just tell the neighbours and they will move their car away. they are very nice people'...

any legal or friendly advice?

thanks

house hunt advice please---accessing the house via neighbours drive
OP posts:
FuckingLiability · 23/03/2015 08:35

I'm afraid I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole. Too many opportunities for everything to go horribly wrong.

JugglingLife · 23/03/2015 08:35

So do you have formal right of way over their drive? Or is it all just a handshake and they can revoke your access at any point? I would be very wary either wayactually I'd run a mile. Right of way issues are mega stressful and however lovely the house you might find the access spoils it for you in the long run.

Spadequeen · 23/03/2015 08:37

These owners might be nice and friendly but what about when they sell?

I would need to see it in black and white re what legal access you have to the house, I wouldn't take the vendors (or their neighbours) word for it.

Original poster
Emily2222 · 23/03/2015 08:43

i agree with you all. all seems a bit dodgy....i'll call the estate this morning and see if they have any legal documents etc...
if they dont it will be a real shame the house is so nice!

OP posts:
Blu · 23/03/2015 08:46

Ask to see the deeds which give formal right of way.
There are houses the length and breadth of the land with access arrangements like this, (my parents live in one) and it's fine as long as it is laid down as a permanent right of way.

Just get your solicitor to check.

If it is perfect in every other way I wouldn't be put off by this if it is legally sorted.
By 'if you need to get an extra car in just ask' they meant if you need to park an additional car actually on the drive, well that's a different matter and would be you extending beyond the agreed access anyway.

Original poster
Emily2222 · 23/03/2015 08:47

just spoke to the estate agent - he said straightway without doubt that it is a share drive!
would this not show on the land registry if it is a share drive?

OP posts:
FlaviaAlbia · 23/03/2015 09:08

I wouldn't trust the estate agent on this, get your solicitor to check and get it in writing.

Original poster
Emily2222 · 23/03/2015 09:27

i've just downloaded the deeds for both houses and had a good read through. 99% of the wording in both deeds are identical (guess coz the bungalow which was nonexistent and was part of the other house until 1989). there's only one phrase that mentioned about the transfer in 1989 to the current owner..doesnt say anything about shared drive...

OP posts:
OhNoNotMyBaby · 23/03/2015 09:34

If it truly is a 'shared drive' there will be legal documents showing how this was agreed and providing proof.

If these documents are not in evidence I would run for the hills.

Or - negotiate a discount off the house and get access properly sorted via solicitors and registered etc BEFORE YOU AGREE THE PURCHASE.

SonT · 23/03/2015 10:38

we own a track which others have access over. It's not a problem; we have something in our deeds that says

"To hold the same unto purchaser in fee simple subject to any rights of way or other easements or quasi-easements affecting the strip of land thereby conveyed then used as access to the rear of the adjoining properties"

So we have to give access to the people who live in the houses (or who visit the houses).

To be honest the track is far enough away not to bother us, and hardly anyone uses it. But we have to be careful our guests/visitors don't block access

Blu · 23/03/2015 10:52

Ask the vendors what paperwork they have about access.
And ask them to ask the owners of the terrace what they have.
It will either be something that your solicitor can ascertain and re-assure you on v quickly - or something that is actually a problem.
If the EA are sure of the shared nature, ask them to ask the vendors to provide the paperwork!

My parents' neighbours have full right of access over the driveway which is on their land. It is all legally set out - not sure if it is part of the deeds, but it was part of the conveyance correspondence.

Original poster
Emily2222 · 23/03/2015 11:55

We are gonna go to see a local solicitor today and bring the deeds of both houses to ask...
We don't see any relevant phrases in the deeds so far ...

OP posts:
TheFnozwhowasmirage · 23/03/2015 13:38

I'd be wary, there are two houses in the next village to me that won't sell because of shared drive/access.

peteneras · 23/03/2015 14:16

It's too much hassle to be honest. There'll be other properties that'll come along. Just be patient.

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 23/03/2015 15:26

As said before you simply cannot go on an Estate Agent's say-so.

I wouldn't buy anywhere that there was potential for my access to be blocked even if the property has a legal right of access. Rights and realities aren't always the same thing unfortunately.

SophieandHerSnail · 23/03/2015 15:35

You definitely need a legal entitlement in writing!

Different situation, but my mum bought a house with two points of pedestrian access (no driveway, just on street parking). One point of access had no legal entitlement, but it was easy to get put in place because could prove that it had been used for years. So that should be an option here too.

Spickle · 23/03/2015 18:40

OP, hope you got some answers from your solicitor today. Your estate agent will have no information regarding your legal right or otherwise to use/park on the access way/driveway - he only knows what the owner has told him.

The deeds to the property will say something like "excepting and reserving to A,B and C a right of way/access as described in a transfer dated..."

Neighbours deeds will have a bit saying " together with the benefit of a right...etc". This may be in the initial part of the land registry office copies, but be sure to read it all. Get the title plan for each property too. You can get it immediately online for a v small fee.

Hope that helps

TheUnwillingNarcheska · 23/03/2015 19:41

I would want my own access, we lived on an estate where there were shared drives (not mine) and there are always issues with the number of cars parking and blocking.

I mean you only have to read the parking threads on here to know how inconsiderate people can be. Plus have a wander on over to GardenLaw forum for the Rights of Way stuff to show you how bad it can be.

Also, I cannot tell from the plans, it the road a dead end? Leading to what? Fields at the moment? Could anyone build in the white space at the top right hand corner of your pic?

Basically I am saying walk away unless you can gain your own access.

Unexpected · 23/03/2015 21:26

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2333648-what-is-reasonable-neighbour-drive-dispute-update-vvvv-long-sorry
This is precisely why I would not consider buying the house you are interested in.

TremoloGreen · 23/03/2015 21:54

We have a right of way over a lane to our house (each house facing the lane owns the part immediately in front of their house, so we pass over parts owned by the neighbours to get to ours). It was clearly marked on the land registry plans - there was a thick border around our house and garden and our part of the lane, then a cross hatched marking over the rest of the lane that we have ROW over. You can get that from the Land Registry for about £3.

In our case, it doesn't cause problems because it's not really wide enough to park on, so there are no issues with blocking in etc. However, if I was relying on being able to drive over someone's driveway, formal ROW or not, I would think twice. Do you want to have to go to court to prevent your neighbours from blocking your ROW? Because that's within the realms of possibility.

GemmaTeller · 23/03/2015 22:00

That'd be a definate no for me - what happens if the 'very nice people' sell?

Imperialleather2 · 23/03/2015 22:11

If it's not a registered easement and assuning you're buying with a mortgage then the mortgage company won't lend, for good reason the owner effectively has a ransom strip.

I Wonder if the conveyance granting the rights is available as a,separate document which is why you can only find one mention of it As opposed to the lr extracting the details onto the title

Imperialleather2 · 23/03/2015 22:13

You also need to ensure that you had adequate rights for services and the right to enter on toothed neighbouring property to repair and maintain.

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