Opinions on floorplan please

[cunningplan101]

I'm about to do a loft conversion. Originally, we were hoping to squeeze an en-suite bathroom up there ... but due to planning permission issues due to us being in a conservation area, we're only allowed one dormer rather than two and so won't have room for the en-suite.

This is bad news as our bathroom is currently situated through the kitchen (there's a little passageway that leads off the kitchen ... so the bathroom thankfully isn't directly off the kitchen, iyswim). Which means that anyone sleeping in the new loft bedroom will need to come down two half-flights of stairs, along the hallway and through the kitchen to get to a toilet. That's quite a hike in the middle of the night!

I've been playing around with a new layout, where I'd swap the bathroom and kitchen around and have a separate bathroom and toilet. I'm hoping to get your very knowledgeable input. Which layout do you prefer? Can you think of a different, better one?

The new stairs will start from the door next to the small bedroom/office (replacing the cupboard), rise up above the existing stairs to a new landing, turn 180 degrees, and then continue up to the loft.

In the new plan, I've put double doors from the bathroom because I want to open up the old kitchen fireplace. The idea is, when I'm home alone, I'll be able to have the doors open, sit in the roll-top bath and enjoy the open fire! But not sure if other people would find that odd?

Oh and I've included two sinks - one which would be a little hand sink opposite the new toilet (the idea is to hide it away in a pretty built-in cupboard) and one in the bathroom.

Any thoughts/advice/alternative ideas? Thank you so much.

[Photos deleted by HQ at OPs request because it was outing]

It honestly wouldn't work for me but I am not a fan of loos that are separate from the bathroom, nor of handbasins that are separate from the loo. The other thing that would be an issue for me is the long trek from kitchen to reception room, which is presumably whee you'd eat.

Would enlarging the kitchen and putting the bathroom in the current small bedroom be a total nightmare? You could then have the front room as the main bedroom and the reception room next to eh kitchen. I suppose from the point of view of moving pipes etc it would be impractical though..

What about swapping the bedroom to the back by the balcony and the kitchen next door to reception room?

Possibly you could even loose the presumably stud wall so you enter up the stairs into a large semi open plan kitchen/ living space.

A new mini loby could then be at the bottom of stairs to attic and small bedroom.

I know someone who lives in a house with your exact same floor plan - and has done the loft conversion the same way - they had the same issue with the en-suite.

They've done basically exactly what you're suggesting, but minus the separate toilet and double doors - it's just one bathroom. Works perfectly nicely, doesn't seem odd at all. And I quite like the double doors/fire idea!

Thank you, grumbleina - that's v reassuring to know someone else has done this and it worked out well!!

MisForMum - the bedroom and bathroom have sloping ceilings, so I think if I swapped the bedroom for the kitchen it would feel too small. Also, I like the idea of accessing the balcony from the kitchen, rather than a bedroom?

Amethyst - it sounds like you'd be too sensible to buy a flat with such an eccentric Edwardian layout in the first place :-) I could perhaps fit a sink in with the toilet. I'd like to keep the bathroom and toilet separate as then when someone's using the bathroom, someone else can still use the toilet.

The plan makes the kitchen look smaller than hopefully it will be - I'm hoping to fit in a table and make it a (compact) eat-in kitchen.

I want to try to preserve as much of the original Edwardian feeling as I can - so the separate living room, the fireplaces in the living room and bedroom, at least one of the the original cupboards in the hallway, etc

Thanks v much for your thoughts!

Although not entirely the way I'd do it, I think the flow on what you're proposing would work well. Putting forward items for consideration though:

I'd drop the 'hand-sink in cupboard' idea and keep that space for storage - don't think it will add much. Agree with Amethyst on having a compact sink in the same room if at all possible. If not people can either use the bathroom or kitchen sink for hand-washing.

For the new loft room - you mention an en-suite 'bathroom' (so I am assuming loo, sink and shower?) - you don't mention dimensions but, if you just went with compact loo and sink that this could be fitted in without a dormer? Daylight doesn't matter too much, and head-height if just a loo is less of a consideration (although it does mean that those of the male persuasion may need to sit down for any of their 'activities' in there, as it were.

I would sacrifice the small bedroom/office and turn it into a bathroom; and take the separate loo from your second plan and include it in a large, open plan kitchen/diner with double doors opening onto the balcony.

If I could squeeze a small utility room into that new loo I would. I think it would be more sellable when you choose to move on that way round too.

Thanks Daisy - if I could do that, I definitely would. That would be the ideal. But unfortunately I don't think it can work with the pipes. The soil pipe is all the way at the back, where the current loo is - so it's too far to go. It's not possible to put a new soil pipe at the front. And I don't think my downstairs neighbour would be keen on me digging up her garden for a new drain. I will research more though as it would be v good if I could do that.

Moonlight - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that, once they've laid out the loft room, I will be able to find a way to do what you suggest and squeeze in an en-suite loo. The loft company don't think there will be enough head room for a door, but fingers crossed anyway. Yes originally it was going to be a shower room. You said you think this could work, but it's not quite how you would do it. Do you mean the double-door/fireplace thing, or something else? In the end, I might just do a normal door and put a bookshelf in the fireplace (might end up a bit too 'Hotel du Vin' with the fireplace!)

I think in the plan as I have it at the moment, I've given too much room for the bathroom. I could make it significantly smaller, and have enough room for a bigger eat-in kitchen ... making the bathroom less dominant.

For the cupboard-sink idea ... thanks, taking all advice on board, I will axe that! At the moment, the boiler is where the loo would go. If I moved the boiler to the new kitchen, I think I could definitely fit a small hand sink in there. And then have more storage opposite. Thanks.

Yup - did mean the double-door & fireplace - it sounds lovely, but not sure it would be in reality (can't quite explain why though, just one of those feelings).

You could maybe consider some kind of sliding door if there's not going to be enough space for a standard one? Or, have a slanting door made obviously a bit wider, but that kind of thing.

These were the sort of doors I was thinking of: link to doors

I've redrawn the floorplan after everyone's advice. Thank you! Will probably change a lot between now and when we finally save the money to do this, but your input has been really helpful.

[Photos deleted by HQ at OPs request because it was outing]

Oops, I meant, that was the kind of folding doors I was thinking of for the bathroom.

I like the door you linked to for the loft, Moonlight. I can't see why they won't be able to squeeze that in. Think it'll be easier for me to make the argument when the loft is open and I can walk around it.

Interesting ideas and I def like your new layout. From the cost-to-value perspective, is it worth to swap the bathroom and kitchen around? if you plan to refurbish them anyway then most likely yes but you are happy with the current condition then I would seriously consider the benefits of doing that work - pretty much a new kitchen and bathroom, say £10k? The benefits are direct access to balcony from kitchen and a few steps closer to the bathroom for the loft residents.

I preferred the first plan in your OP, with kitchen leading out to the balcony.

Hong - yes, our plan has always been to redo the bathroom and kitchen as they're v old, so it seemed to make sense to reconfigure the layout at the same time. The main priorities are: to have a sep bathroom and toilet, which will be hard with the current layout, and to not have to walk through the kitchen on way to/from bath. I know it's only saving a few steps, but I think it seems longer somehow when you're walking through a room to get to another room? (dodging around the kitchen table)

Quintless - that's interesting - so do you mean, you prefer the current floorplan where you walk through the kitchen to get to the corridor that leads to the balcony & bathroom? Why do you prefer it?

Ooh, I love a floorplan.

I like your latest floorplan idea - in the original one I thought you were giving too much bathroom space and not enough kitchen but the latest one sorts that.

If it were me I'd probably make the kitchen bigger, bathroom even smaller and have a bath-with-shower-over rather than trying to put in both, but I can tell you really want that roll top .

The bathroom double doors and having separate bath and shower do make it quite difficult to squeeze anything else into the bathroom. For example where are you going to put a towel rail/radiator - perhaps at the end of the shower but that depends on how far the shower sprays. Or you could have underfloor heating but that does add to cost. If you had a single door there would be room for a rad/towel rail behind it. What about storage?

I like the double doors to the fireplace idea BUT do get the chimney checked out before you commit to this - you may find it's been blocked up somewhere (ours has been with concrete ) or at the very least you may find it needs relining/repairing in order to be safe, which could be expensive especially if it requires scaffolding on the outside.

On that note, I assume you own the loft and have got freeholder permission for the conversion.

The other floorplan option that occurs to me is a much bigger change: put the kitchen where the bedroom currently is, and have the bedroom and bathroom at the back (with the balcony off the bedroom). This would mean you could open up between kitchen and living room (with double doors so you can close off when you want to) which gives you a lovely big living space. However that does mean moving all the kitchen plumbing which is a pain.

You could also try opening up the box room to the reception room and making that space all one big open plan kitchen/reception. But I wouldn't personally do that.

OP, have you had an architect tell you there is no space for an ensuite?

We have an ensuite in the front part of our loft conversion, ie no dormer. The toilet is under the slope, and shower has full height.

The guy who drew up the loft plan and advised against the en-suite is a member of the British Institute of Architectural Technologists; not sure though if that makes him a full architect? (he didn't claim to be)

I've attached the floorplan for the loft. The tricky thing is fitting in an en-suite without reducing the size of the bedroom too much (as it's not a huge loft). The plan was to put the en-suite where the velux conservation window is drawn on the plan; but because there's now going to be a 'shelf' in the floor to make room for the stairs, the loft guy and engineer don't think there will be room for a shower room without eating into the bathroom. They didn't even think an en-suite toilet would fit.

To be fair, there was always going to a downside to the loft bathroom anyway, as it was always going to have to be a macerator toilet rather than a proper plumbed-in toilet - and have heard horror stories about macerators?

Thanks for everyone's advice. I'm going to think further about the idea of swapping the bedroom and kitchen around.

[Photos deleted by HQ at OPs request because it was outing]

When we first thought about a loft conversion, we had a loft specialist come round and they told everything that was impossible.

A few years, and two children later desperate, we had an architect draw up plans which were brilliant.

Our toilet is on an outside wall so we dropped a new waste pipe. We also took the opportunity to fit an ensuite in the bedroom below. For water pressure, we installed a megaflow tank, which benefits the whole house. For heating, we installed a heat pump heater/air conditioner.

As you're unable to have 2 dormers could you have & a velux window in the en-suite assuming you have room for a shower or if not a bath?

Can I ask what program you used to draw the floorplan?

Your first floor layout is very almost identical to mine. Our second staircase is a straight run on top of the main staircase and it goes into a dormer that runs across the full width of the house (back). The ensuite is diagonally opposite the bedroom door.

LovingTheSunshine - The second dormer was meant to hold the staircase going up, which would have then been further at the back of the building, giving room for an en-suite at the front. So it's head-height over the staircase rather than light in the en-suite which is the problem: we've been given permission for a (conservation) velux-type window, but because the staircase is now going to eat into space which was going to be for the en-suite, we don't have enough space even for a shower room. Perhaps an en-suite toilet. Though for some reason I'm struggling with the idea of a little room off a bedroom which only holds a toilet and sink ... Somehow I can't imagine it being a pleasant space, while I can imagine a little shower room being quite smart.

I actually use MS Paint to draw the floorplans! I take the estate agents' original floorplan and then just select, copy and paste, rotate, etc bits of the diagram to make the new one. I find it weirdly therapeutic! I did it a lot while house-hunting (or flat-hunting) too, imagining the possibilities.

Fugacity Yes the planners have been really tough on us. To begin with, they weren't going to allow us to have any dormers at all because of the conservation area, as there were apparently 'no other dormers in the street'. I had to literally stand the man from the council on our balcony and point at our neighbours' rooftops- 'There's a dormer there', 'There's another one over there'! So they are allowing us one, because of the previous precedents, but it's only a small one.

And talking of MS Paint, here is my final stab at the floorplan. I'm quite excited about the redesign now! I don't think we'll be able to afford to do it until 2016. So that leaves a long while to obsess with floorplans, pinterest and houzz But hopefully getting there. Thanks for everyone's input.

[Photos deleted by HQ at OPs request because it was outing]

Not sure if this helps but my mum's just made a small front bedroom of a London terrace into a bathroom without moving pipework/plumbing which is at the rear of the house. She researched it, not sure what it's called and it wasn't a fortune, she's a tight pensioner. This might be an option and then you could put bathroom where the small bedroom is.

Looks good!

One last comment - I am not sure how the sliding doors to the bathroom would work - I suggest having a single larger sliding door which slides into a pocket wall (the wall at the end of the shower) - not complicated to build once you're putting in new walls anyway.

Thanks minipie. That's a great idea - hadn't thought of it. Although I also like the look of these: sliding barn doors

I'm going to speak to a different building contractor this weekend about the possibility of fitting a toilet/cloakroom in the loft - but coming off the new landing, not the bedroom. If they can, I think we'll still go ahead and swap the bathroom and kitchen around, but include a second toilet in the bathroom rather than have a sep downstairs cloakroom. As long as we have one separate toilet for guests and for using when the bathroom is occupied, that's the main thing.