To re-wire or not?

[grumbleina]

The flat: is from the 30s, brick. It was built quite well I think, originally. When we bought it it had been squatted, and prior to that... god knows, but nobody had looked after it properly for a good while. It. Was. Minging.

The electrics: are OLD. Very old.

We've had a bunch of sparks through, and had three of five tell us that providing it passes tests, they can do the things that DO need doing (new consumer unit) and things we want (more sockets and some bathroom stuff) but a full re-wire may not be necessary.

Needless to say this will be cheaper. Much cheaper. They can certify it, but not for a great length - they say they'd mark it as needing testing every year. But they have said that the wiring we have could last another good length of time, and the certification is more about their regulations than doubt about the wiring.

We had budgeted for a full re-wire. But obviously saving extra £1000+ not doing the re-wire would be very nice.

I'm leaning towards doing it all - saves doing it later, we intended it do it, we can afford to do it.

But do we need to? Is this something that would add significant value if we decide to sell? Is there a genuine risk in not doing it?

USB socket:
mobile.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/digital-home/3535292/usb-wall-charging-flat-plate-review/

& although you don't have a tv, future residents probably will.

We need a 6-gang trailer for TV, Sky box, DVD player, XBox & lamp, with one spare; 4 of the other 5 sockets in the living room are permanently in use, one of those also with a trailer, which is used for charging laptops & phones as & when. (We have 4 grown-up children). The trailing sockets are all fused with individual switches.

It's really astounding how many sockets an ordinary household can use!

Yeah ok. More sockets. Currently we're well over the number that we use, but it's worth doing, and also from a re-sale/rental point of view, not everyone is as appliance-backward as me.

I had seen the USB sockets. They're cool but I'm just loathe to put something in that then becomes useless, as it inevitably will when they come up with the new special thing we're all supposed to charge our phones on.

shovetheholly I'm happy for this to be a re-wiring thread! What are your floors made of? When we had the sparks over they all went 'um, so... the decor' and looked at my lovely if you don't look too closely walls. They were very relieved to be told they could fire at will. But they did seem to have a plan to mitigate damage had I gone into a dead faint, crying 'MY LOVELY WALLS'. I think it involved floors, or perhaps just a more faffy/less crashy wall plan.

Also re dust - plastic sheeting gaffer taped fulled over the doors, to the floor, and a strict entry/exit policy does help, as do damp cheapo towels. And a henry for afterwards. And a sort of zen 'it'll be less dusty one day' attitude, as you continue finding it in odd corners for months. Maybe someone else can be of more help though.

shovetheholly

You mention your electrician used a dust making Wall Chasing machine.

It is very bad practice to use that in an occupied home unless fitted with a hose to a dust-collecting vac. Even then, dustsheets should be used. For a small job in my own home I would use a bolster, which is slower and harder work.

Either your electrician was an incompetent half-wit, or you had enraged him in some way. Looking on the bright side, he will soon be dead with silicosis or COPD.

Warning to others, if you see someone preparing to use such a tool, boot her out.

My brother did most of ours (he is a sparky). He mostly went under the boards and only chased out in two places. He used a flat chisel thing on his drill so far as I remember. It was a pain in the bum to clear up the mess but we weren't living there that week and he did pack it out with plaster afterwards so that I only had to skim and sand to make good. He did break a couple of our boards but I bought the nearest matching size in planed timber from wickes and then cut down to fit. Our floorboards suffered quite badly actually from the rewire.

PigletJohn! Thank you so much! I hope I hadn't enraged him, as I think we get on OK on the whole.

It was an apprentice doing the chasing and I think the pair of them thought it was OK because the room was SUCH a state! (I mean really, really bad - no plaster on the walls, no carpet or underlay, half the chimney gone for a logburner installation, really back-to-basics). They must have thought that closing the doors would be OK and would contain it.

But the dust still got everywhere. I could write my name in it in the room directly above, and it was that awful red stuff that just stains if you get it wet. I have to admit that when I saw the state of the house, I did burst into tears. Fortunately DH was brilliant.

I will in future specify how the work is going to be done when getting a quote. I don't mind paying a bit more for them to do a cleaner job - seems only fair if it takes a bit longer!

observe the handles of all] these [[http://www.jewson.co.uk/tool-hire/concrete-cutting-equipment/cutting-chasing/products/2328/wall-chasing-machine-110v/ chasers they have a tube where you attach a canister vac (not a domestic vac which will be ruined)

I should think every electrician with more than a week's experience knows about them, though a beginner might not have the cash.

My empty shell of a house was done with wall chasers -by my brother and his partner and their labourer.
I did get a 'cheap job' or rather I got a fantastic job at a very low price but I had to clean most of it up - they had to do it quickly (they stayed overnight - mattresses on the floor, no proper heating, first night one socket (tapped into the meter) no kitchen -just a kettle, microwave, loo and a sink for washing -twice - once for the first fix and then again for the second fix after the plaster had been)
The labourer was the one sent crawling under the boards and through the insulation
They did all wear masks/suits etc...as did I when I cleaned up. The amount of dust was phenomenal.
I used a cannister vac - in the end with the wet filter (but dry) -even then had countless clogs. I even tried to use my ash vac attachment and then my ask vac attachment adapted to act as a water dust trap -in the end I just had to get used to frequently emptying it...(And they had roughly brushed up most of the worse dust/chunks) Also not helped by years of crap left under the floor boards by workmen ..plumbers please note - knotched out wood blocks are a perfect hose clogging size..especially when hidden in a pile of dust...
If you have wood floors -especially with crawl space on the ground floor they can easily run cables under them but they still need to feed big cables up the height of the house and up to every socket, down to every light switch...unless you want cables on the wall in those plastic ducting. Slightly easier in plasterboard walls but I guess you don't have many of them in a 1930s house! They did manage to drill out behind the skirtings for the sockets so at least they could stay in place (and they aren't standard ones - couldn't be matched - if we pulled them off and any got broke we would have to replace the lot or pay to have some made)...

I did read somewhere about a paint they are developing - basically the current runs through the paint instead of cables - thought it was a fantastic idea but seeing as it is still in development stage think we are stuck trying to bury twin and earth cable to a safe depth in walls for quite a while yet!

OK now the mess chats are worrying me. I think I'm quite hardened about this stuff. Am I fooling myself?

Compared to the time DH took all of the concrete render off one kitchen wall with an SDS drill because he 'wanted to see if exposed brick would look nice'... worse? (it does look nice btw thank god)

Dust wise worse I'm sure, but living hell worse than removing an entire flat worth including ceilings of wood chip wall covering?

Compared to pulling up an entire flat worth of carpet where the rubber underlay has become a very fine dust and a further two layers of lino?

It can't be worse. OR CAN IT?

for dirty work, the sooner you do it the better. Any decorating or carpeting you do will be wasted if you then carve up the walls and floors.

Get yourself a wet-and-dry canister vac, with a spare cartridge filter (you can brush the dust out of the pleats, and eventually wash it) and the big paper bags, which will delay filter clogging. If you can't get bags and a spare cartridge, don't buy it.

Cheap brands like Titan, Aldi or Lidl vacs will do if they have a long guarantee and you are about to start heavy work with them.

not the small one, and check what accessories are included in the price

You will also need disposable dust masks with a plastic valve on the snout, and ear defenders.

(the "power take-off socket" is very useful as it starts and stops the vac when you turn your tool on and off)

Too few.
Take your estimates and double them I would say :)

Master bedroom - 1 double either side of bed + 1 double behind wardrobe.

Off the top of my head in our recently rewired bedroom we have plugged in at all times
2 x work Blackberry chargers, 2 personal mobile chargers, 1 electric blanket, 2 ipad chargers [we don't talk much], 2 bedside lamps, 1 TV, 1 free view box, 1 dvd player, 1 hairdryer.
So that's 13 gadgets in one bedroom before we plug in a hoover, use a hair straightener or anything else that needs a charge like a camera battery etc.

Spare bedroom (a 'london double' so, a double if you don't like floorspace) - 2 x double sockets
This is probably ok except if you think about it, you'll have two bedside lights which only leaves two spares for guests to charge/dry hair/etc so location is important. If you have a child in the flat, you'll use one socket for a monitor the other for a night light and you're done.

Living room - 2 x doubles either side of fireplace, 1 x double on facing wall
Even if you don't "do TV" now, you might later. They seem to require tons of stuff now or maybe that's my husband. TV, surround sound, freeview box and apple TV. That's 5 sockets used before you plug in a lamp or 4 or hoover the room. Sigh.

Kitchen - 4 x doubles in pairs either end of bench, sockets for fridge and cooker under bench (open shelving), boiler and washer sockets in boiler cupboard and 1 x double on the floor near the door.
Do you have a kettle/juicer/coffee machine/breadmaker/mixer that doesn't get used much/other electrical gadgets that may "live" on the counter. Add sterilizer if you are planning a child. My rule of thumb is that is generally impossible to have too many sockets in a kitchen. We also have a computer/printer and portable oil heater in the kitchen plus some extra ikea bookcase lighting which runs off a plug.
Don't forget that your big appliances will also need sockets - oven, washing machine, fridge etc.

Landing - stick a socket on the landing(s) they are dead handy for hoovering without having to move the plug around, and nightlights if you have a child/guest in the house and don't want the landing light on all night.

So now that we've established that my power bill would light up North Africa you can see why I think you have underestimated your needs

Cheaper to do it now than pay a day rate later for a few extra bits. Get the fuse board properly labelled and surge protected. The former is a godsend when stuff trips out.

TreadSoftly my god!

The thing is I'm sure you're quite average! I don't know how I'm so backward, here's what's plugged in in our bedroom:

1 x Lamp
2 x occasional laptop charger and/or phone charger but it's very rare that more than one of these is plugged in at a time.

We did go through and raise the numbers, as you're right about doing it now rather than later, and also yes the kid thing is worth considering. No plans now, but it's possible, plus the resale/rental thing.

In my defence, it is a small flat. Spacious by London standards but not really a family house - I can do the entire flat by plugging henry in in the kitchen, and he doesn't even get near the end of his cable. I can only dream of a kitchen with enough room for a bookcase... let alone a computer!

I figured it would probably be excessive but when you actually go around counting all the stuff you use, it adds up surprisingly quickly and it's a bit soul destroying to pay for a re-wire and then realise that you've underestimated it, or can't move the furniture around as all the sockets are on one wall.

We didn't "do TV" until we had kids either We did the gym, a social life, theatre, all sorts. Then we had to be home by 6pm sharp and meals got a lot simpler [or we got else fat in the absence of gym time] so films and tv sort of grew into a much bigger chunk of time. All the TV related gadgetry is so we can actually watch something worth watching.

You don't have to go too mad if the flat is small. It's not like you'll have to go down two flights of stairs if you leave your phone charging in the kitchen. I did spend hours reading on a tablet while breastfeeding though so I wouldn't necessarily stint on the guest room quota.

In terms of mess, if your flat is v small, I'd try to housesit somewhere for a week, pack up and seal as much clothing and soft furnishings as possible and leave them to it. It is dusty and the dry cleaning bills are tedious.

Test EVERYTHING!

Actually probably not relevant for a small flat ...but make sure you get a plenty big enough consumer unit too... enough 'ways' -spaces for circuit breakers. If you don't and you need another circuit you might end up having to have an extra small consumer unit fitted...
eg in this house we planned on having power to the shed at some point...so we have a space for that to have its own circuit breaker, and if say you wanted an electric cooker that might need its own ring - another 'way'. We also have the outside socket on its own breaker - so when the DCs were younger and playing in the garden if I needed to cook tea etc I could leave the lawn mower out but have the socket turned off in case one of them decided to fiddle ...and upstairs and downstairs rings on separate breakers means if you develop say a lighting fault downstairs you can still have lighting on the other ring (upstairs) whilst you wait for it be fixed.
I messed up slightly at the new house - we had solar PV fitted after the rewire - and I had forgot to allow an extra circuit for that - so we had to have two put together on the same circuit breaker (I think it is the downstairs lighting and smoke alarms) ...not a major disaster but would have more of a pain if I hadn't got them all spread out anyway so could combine...
(I think the modern recommendation is for 4 double sockets in a double bedroom...in our kitchen here (approx 4m by 3m) we have 9 worktop height sockets (4 double sockets and a single on the cooker)...as well as all 4 appliances with sockets behind and isolator switches AND one low down single socket for hoovering etc...and I wished I'd had that a double as it would be handy for hoovering and steam mopping... but then cos the rest of the house wasn't done we are short of sockets - so we charge phones etc in the kitchen...)