Tips on asking for house price reduction

[greenbanana]

Has anyone negotiated a reduction following a survey?

Ours came back with damp and roof issues. We've had specialists to quote and the immediate work will cost around £5k although I expect that will increase when we add on stuff like scaffolding, new tiles etc.

The agent has already made noises about 'problems common in a house of this age' but it was renovated 10 yrs ago (owners before our vendor), and the work was done badly. This wasn't obvious when we looked round, but the roof is unlined at the front and there isn't proper underfloor ventilation at the back. Also there's been a leak to the roof where an attempted fix has been bodged.

There are other things we won't ask for a reduction for such as improving the fans in the bathroom to prevent condensation.

Do we ask for a discount? Should it be the whole amount or just some of it? I wouldn't bother but in particular for the roof the work needs doing immediately or it will continue to leak, so we won't have time to save up.

Get a quote from a builder for the complete overhaul of a new roof, plus accommodation costs while work is being done, and any other damp work.

At the very least deduct this from the price, and saying why.

The vendors are chancing their arm, and it's probably the reason they're selling.

I would think again about this property: the agent knows more than he's saying to you.

We'll walk away if they don't have proper documentation from when they bought on the renovation work. It definitely had building regs approval etc.

I think they are selling partly because of this - the house was rented out and they live abroad. But we're not scared off by roof work - we replaced the roof on our current property this summer, it was a hassle but not as disrupting as internal building work. We'll get someone we trust to quote. I think the damp problem might have been made worse by the house sitting empty since the end of the summer.

Unless they are selling at a really good price, walk away NOW. We always call this, the red flag moment. It is being waved at you.

Really? We know the problems, they can be fixed, surely we just ask for a reduction?

The survey said the property is structurally sound, he said it felt like the people who did the renovation ran out of money towards the end.

That's not walk away territory. That's knock off the price of a complete new roof territory, as long as your initial offer wasn't too far below asking price. I'd start big - whole roof. You then have haggling room to knock it down to refurbishment and re-lining.

It depends - no-one can say (rightly or wrongly) that you should knock it off or whatever. It depends what the house was priced at (whether it reflects there may have been work to do), whether even paying for the work on top of your agreed selling price, it still works out as a reasonable price (and you're prepared to do the work), how much under the selling price your offer is (e.g. if you're more than £5k under, the seller might say thats why he agreed it). There are a whole host of reasons as to whether its reasonable or not. From the seller's point of view unless the mortgage company refuse to lend, or put a retention on the mortgage as a result of the survey, its not necessarily something that needs to be done immediately.

But, I guess the starting point is to cost up what needs to be done as a matter of urgency, what you want doing immediately and negotiate!

Thanks everyone - I'm going to get the cost for a whole new roof and start negotiating from there.

We attempted to negotiate but the sellers didn't come down in price until the bank said they'd not be willing to mortgage for more than £xx. I imagine this may be the case for you too.

It's odd with the bank. We got our survey done separately to their valuation. So their valuation report says 'For the purposes of this report it has been assumed that a full inspection would not reveal any matters that could materially affect this valuation'. Do we need to tell the bank about the full survey?

Hello, no actual help I'm afraid but in exactly the same position. Older property with a leaky roof. I'm going to get a quote and aim to reduce the selling price. Can u update this thread with your progress as I'm interested in what u do!

Get a detailed fixed price costing from a builder valid for 90 days to fix everything in the house and firstly submit that.
Then assuming you are not too terrified by that costing and still wish to proceed, you can start haggling.
"We recognise that there will always be issues with houses of this age, etc etc, however at a minimum we will need to reduce our offer by X in order to cover the costs of 1, 2, 3. Blah blah. POint out that you are ready to proceed, have deposit, no chain if applicable and then sit tight.

Bear in mind that it may also be taken out of your hands
a) the bank may value it lower than the agreed price if the work that needs doing is apparent to the bank. Depending on your LTV ratio that may become an issue for you as they may loan you a smaller amount.

b) if the buyers agree to reduce the asking price so you can do the work. You will need to have the cash amount to cover the work BECAUSE the bank will lower the mortgage amount offered to you, assuming you are borrowing as much as you can afford.

In an ideal world if you are tight for cash, they'd pay for a new roof and then you could pay the asking price but it never works out that way.

We went through this last autumn, with a Victorian house. We like old houses, partly because if they've stood for hundred years they're likely to stand a hundred more, but they do come with more maintenance issues.

Our survey came back and it was awful - the bay window was suffering from subsidence and had a sheared column, which was going to cost about £8k to stabilise, there was a crack in the party wall, and the damp readings in the kitchen were at the top of the scale, due to there being no proper ventilation (replacement concrete floor). We wrote a detailed email, saying exactly what we would want to fix and pointed to the relevant sections of the survey, which we included, even though we were under no obligation to do so. We had quotes and included them too. We expected a bit of haggling so went in low.

However, our seller took it badly. So badly that he yelled at the EA about not taking a penny less before hell froze over, at which point the agent said they weren't going to be able to sell his house for him and terminated his contract The EA told us that we'd made a fair offer since he'd seen the survey too, but obviously our seller wasn't going to budge AT ALL. It's still for sale with someone else five months later.

This isn't what usually happens. Usually there's some negotiation, and you may find yourselves somewhere in the middle.

Our broker advised us against having the bank's full survey, because if they know about problems they can refuse to release funds until the problems are fixed, or attach clauses and conditions to the mortgage. You're not under an obligation to tell them, so I wouldn't. It's nothing majorly structural and can be fixed.

Thanks LizLemon - that is very useful. I don't think our vendors are as crazy as yours, I think the worst that can happen is a flat no. Sounds like you might have had a lucky escape! Please tell me you're now in somewhere much nicer with no problems.

The house is Victorian too btw, and we have a similar concrete floor issue although as it's only in half the extension it does have some ventilation just not enough. I don't think I'm buying your house, no subsidence thank god.

I would ask for the whole amount of discount, expecting the vendors to meet halfway. This is what happened with us with both buying and selling. Our buyer wanted a reduction but we left her our range cooker instead (which suited us fine). The person selling to us met exactly halfway (but its a good house in a v popular area, so we might have negotiated a bit more were it not for that part).

Our buyers tried this, including the putting in a massively inflated quote to give themselves room to haggle. I emailed back saying 'that's fine, what a pity. Please inform the 5 other viewers/bidders that the property is back on the market for sale and open to viewings.'

The original buyer was on my doorstep bawling her eyes out about the loss of her dream home. It went to final offers and we accepted from someone else immediately.

It wasn't the asking for a reduction, it was the 'we will be having a reduction' tone and the amount they asked for. They admitted they inflated it to give room to haggle. They lost out on the house, their fees, and had to move to rented as they had sold.

You also have to respect the fact that houses are sold 'as seen'. You cannot expect to buy a house (apart from a new build) that has no faults that need correcting. The price of a house should reflect this.

When we bought our house a year ago the survey said that the roof of the extension was tiled incorrectly which would cause leaking. We got a quote for £4000 and the vendors agreed to drop half of that off the asking price. We live in an area where they would have had no problem selling to someone else as houses here go to sealed bids all the time. So we did it.

We're not going to inflate anything, we'll have reasonable quotes and will share them with the vendor. I also think we'd be ok for them to meet us halfway. They definitely don't have other buyers lining up around the block - the house was on the market for a while before they found us.

I don't believe houses are sold 'as seen'. Of course for a victorian house there are going to be problems and we knew that. But the roof was done 10 years ago, it shouldn't need replacing already. We wouldn't have known that when we put in our original offer.

I'm not sure you buy a house 'as seen' - isn't that what a survey is for, to find the things you can't see?

But yes, you should look at the price agreed and comparing it with similar properties nearby. The house we're buying now is a)in the same street b)has no major issues and c) is less than the other house is still being marketed for.

I'd never expect to do no work to an older house - we fixed so many things in this one, and we know we're going to have to do the windows in the next one but haven't asked for a reduction for that sort of thing - but major things like a roof need to be sorted asap, or you invite trouble down the line, and you should make it clear that it wasn't obvious when you viewed. (On ours the bay window hadn't sheared when we viewed but had by the time the surveyor went round, showing that there was still movement.) Good luck!

have you had a roofer inspect the roof? Our last house had its original 1911 roof and apart from the odd slippage of a tile we had no problems with it - it wasn't lined. Would have needed doing eventually but we were there for over 15 years and sold it as it was as well with no problems. Damp issues could be easily remedied as well. I would go back and have a talk with the EA and try to get something off the price to help but if you really want the house I wouldn't just dismiss it.

Yes, we've now had a roofer inspect the roof. At least one of the tiles has gone which is causing a leak. We could probably get away with just replacing tiles, if there weren't also problems with the parapet wall, chimney pointing, flashing and flat roof on the back dormer which all means a new roof would probably be better than doing basic repairs. It probably is the original roof, but when doing a loft conversion you should really make sure it has adequate insulation to keep the new room warm - it has none.

We've gone to the vendor through the EA with a proposal which is to reduce our offer by the cost of patching the roof and adding extra ventilation sub-floor downstairs to fix damp, pointing out we'll probably have to pay for a whole roof. We're not confident they'll go for it (we're paying less than the asking price already although only what others in the area are selling for - it was overvalued). If they say no we'll work out if we can do the work immediately with our savings and base our response on that.

A quick update on this. They've agreed to a reduction which covers the cost of the damp work but not the roof. This is because the roof work they had done (around 3.5 years ago) came with a guarantee so they'll contact the company that did that to make sure that can be transferred to us as new owners. I'm not holding my breath on that working but I can see why they don't want to pay for work that's already been done.

So we've accepted the reduction and we're moving ahead to exchange, which is a relief!

Thanks for updating. Sounds like they've been quite accommodating. Our house has come back as needing new roof and it'll be £7k. Can't decide whether to ask for reduction (it was priced quite low originally in anticipation of needing work) or whether to ask for a contribution as we could do with the cash to contribute to the work. The heating also needs doing which is another £6k and I'm worried it's just going to be so expensive!

We just had the quote back from the roofer and it'll cost £8.8k for a new roof icl vat and work doing to the chimney and outhouses. I'm going to ask for help with the cost of this but how? I've spoken to the ea who said they want a copy of the quote and the survey before they speak to the buyers. Is this normal? Also he said he felt the house was priced to reflect possible work but when we viewed the EA said it was just a few flashings causing the damp. Any thoughts? Or tips? Sorry for the hijack

greenbanana, surprised you accepted their proposal, how do you know if this roof guarantee is even still valid/company still exists? its very unlikely you will get a proper fix, or new roof out of it.

You say there are no other buyers, you should of held your ground for a full reduction. The roof is probably the most important aspect of a house and it needs to be right. As you say scaffolding costs a fortune. The seller is not paying for a new roof as they say, they simply would be accepting your reduced offer. they should of had it fixed, using their guarantee! The price of the house is dictated by what the buyer is willing to pay.

Remember, you can change your mind or reduce your offer right up to exchange of contracts.

Elvis, it doesn't matter what the EA thinks or 'feels' the house is effectively a roofless shell with knackered heating - reduce your offer by the full amount quoted (it will end up more anyway) or find another house that has a good roof & heating.

"Our broker advised us against having the bank's full survey, because if they know about problems they can refuse to release funds until the problems are fixed, or attach clauses and conditions to the mortgage. You're not under an obligation to tell them, so I wouldn't. It's nothing majorly structural and can be fixed."

Lizlemon, that's terrible advice for a broker to give to anyone, he's protecting his own (or the estate agent he works for) and not giving a damn about his client (you) potentially buying a lemon and not being aware of the state of a building/repairs needed, in the biggest purchase you'll ever make!

Get the appropriate survey, but get your own RICS surveyor - it's cheaper than going through the bank e.g. a structural survey may cost £500 direct, a bank will rip you off for £900 or more. Then the report is yours to use for negotiating the price if required, you can decide if the bank needs to know about any issues found or not.

Not getting a detailed survey on an old house just to blag a mortgage is insanity.