Driveways....

[LilMissSunshine9]

I am looking to replace the existing driveway and then also pave over the grassy area. When I look on the council website it says if you use non permeable stuff and it's over 5 square meters you need planning permission however I have had reputable large is companies out for quotes and they say as long as you put a soakaway or a drain you don't need it.

I am confused because the council site doesn't say that. Anyone had their driveway done recently? I am in South London.

planning portal gives lots of information here. The rules apply to all parts of England, not just to individual Councils. I think your contractor may be right, but it is best to give the Council a ring to check that they would be happy with that approach.

surely the council would make it a condition that you had a soakaway, and would verify that it was true?

How else would they tell the difference between a person who did not apply for permission because they had a soakaway, and a person who didn't apply but hadn't?

This is my point piglet- the portal says this:
You will not need planning permission if a new or replacement driveway of any size uses permeable (or porous) surfacing which allows water to drain through, such as gravel, permeable concrete block paving or porous asphalt, or if the rainwater is directed to a lawn or border to drain naturally.

If the surface to be covered is more than five square metres planning permission will be needed for laying traditional, impermeable driveways that do not provide for the water to run to a permeable area.

I know what I am asking for is not permeable stuff and I know the area is more than 5 square metres so that means I need planning permission.....yet these large companies are saying I don't need to do this as long as I put a drain in or a soakaway...but the portal doesn't say that.

So does that mean all the driveways that people have had done (and quite recently too) by these companies is not allowed?

I called my council planning department and was told they to look on the portal and I explained that it doesn't answer the question and got told they cannot provide any advice. I said surely you can tell me that these companies saying a drain or soakaway is ok is right or wrong...

if the phone handlers are useless, try a very short letter. There is a good chance it will find its way to someone competent, but even if not, you will hopefully get something in writing.

Don't put a phone number on the letter.

I think the important factor is impermeable driveways "that do not provide for the water to run to a permeable area."
If you are providing a soakaway/drain then you are providing this.
I would write to the Council informing them of exactly what you are proposing to do, and asking if this is acceptable. The portal specifically refers to soakaways as being appropriate if impermeable surfaces are proposed.

Ok I will write to them. I did have a dubious guy come for a quote this morning who said the council will never know if it doesn't drain away but I don't want to take any chances especially as I am one of four terraces on my road with front garden and driveways so its more noticeable when I get mine done and you never know if someone will ring the council and ask them to check if I had permission etc.

Personally I would prefer a drain that is then connected to the drain where my front gutter goes into then a soakaway

oops also wanted to say thank you both :)

by non-permeable they mean concrete, if you use those blocks that look like bricks, they are considered permeable as they allow the water to drain in between the blocks.

I think there is a difference between soakaway and drain.

A soakaway allows the water to soak into the soil in your garden/road.
A drain takes the water into the drainage system, down the drains to the rivers.

The reason for permeable material is to avoid water going into the drainage system, as it then contributes to flooding. Soaking into the local ground is the better way.

orite, yes I am lookingat the block paving that looks like bricks everyone I had round seems to be pushing Marshalls Tegula range

just to say - I am not an expert, so please check what I said, but that is my understanding or permeable and non permeable. (blocks BTW should be laid onto permeable substrate eg sand, not into concrete)

Yes - block paving is considered permeable, concrete slabs or Tarmac are not. Just don't have a concrete base put on it and you should be fine.

Thanks, I have being asking the depth they dig to and what they put down and all have come back re. sand and aggregates and no concrete! My original driveway area is actually concrete so technicalyl but getting rid of that I am creating more permeable surface area

Now I just need to find way to get the quote down from 4k! yikes who knew it could cost so much!

Hmmm, I'm not sure if traditional block paving is considered permeable. We have had a new drive laid as part of a major extension. The drive was part of the planning permission as we needed to create a new parking space as we were increasing the number of bedrooms.

The builder who laid the drive said that you can no longer 'discharge rain water onto the highway' and gave us the option of:

1. traditional block paving with a soakaway grill thingy between the new drive and the old plus a gap between the new drive and pavement (it's at an angle) that will be filled with pea shingle/slate and is therefore permeable

2. using permeable block paving (more expensive) and having extra drainage.

He didn't think that traditional block paving on a sloped drive would class as permeable.

Lots of companies do permeable block paving - it seems to be blocks with a jaggedy edge that leave a gap between them. I could be wrong though.

These were recommended:

www.marshalls.co.uk/homeowners/driveways/permeable-paving

Thanks - I know I have two options with my block paving

1. Soakaway which is like a small box where water running throught the grills is then directed to. This then slowly soaks into the ground

2. Grilsl laid down and water is directed into the drainpipe by my garage door where the gutters direct water into aswell.

I have block paving where the bricks are slightly Z-shaped, set in sand with sand jointing. They are not permeable, rain runs down the camber into gutters, and if there is a dip, it forms a puddle which does not drain or soak into the ground.

Yeah, I think don't think block paving is any permeable, but I'm not 100% sure.

We used Brett Paving for our driveway so they might be able to offer some more information. Their permeable paving page is here:

www.brettpaving.co.uk/home-owners/permeable-paving-1/