Made low offer on property in London- what next??

[akennyg]

Hi All,
We have made an offer of 685 on a property which is on the market for 775. It needs about 80k worth of work, and we can only purchase happily at under 710/715 at the very most. We hoped our offer might potentially be successful for a few reasons-

• the property is overpriced. Clearly above market value. There are similar properties on the market nearby for late 600s early 700s, which we would go for except the lack of buggy access

• we are cash buyers (we can borrow from parents then mortgage later to pay them back),

• we are chain free

• We know the seller is extremely keen to sell - she has already packed up and just wants out for personal reasons

• its been on the market since november with one offer which fell through very quickly. The agent told us this offer was at 770...but she seemed quite shifty when she said that so I'm suspicious it actually wasn't that high...

Especially as the agent encouraged an offer however low as the vendor was "desperate". Then, when we offered yesterday morning the agent took all day to come back and then just said "no". It was a bit odd as she must have told the vendor in the morning but she waited all day to come back to us. she was a bit stuttery on the phone and just said it was way too low and asked if we wanted to make another offer, even though she knows if we offer again it will still be much lower than 770. To be honest it really felt like a game so my husband said we can't really go any higher and we will leave it.

I don't want to miss out on the property, its not the be all and end all and we can wait but its lovely and feels right. I also know instinctively that the agent hasnt been very honest and is playing on the fact she thinks we are chomping at the bit to buy it.

Sorry to ramble! The question is- what would your tactics be in this situation. Do we lay our cards on the table come Monday and hope no other offers are on the horizon, do we stay silent and wait for her to come to us? What's the most likely way to get a good outcome? We are prepared to walk away...we just dont want to if we dont have to!

Any advice very very appreciated on how to act now. Thanks

Ok so I will wait until Tuesday and the. Make a best and final offer around 700, exact number depending on what agent says...I expect even if there haven't been any offers she will give impression there has been/will be. If she gives no specifics but says we need to give our best should I go high and show my hand, or go low and gamble?

That does seem very very overpriced compared to the others you said about!

I agree, see if they come back, give them a best and final and leave it.

The one we are in now, was up for sale, price dropped after a month, this was still more than we could pay but I went to look anyway. I fell in love with it and offered 10k below which was rejected in 10 minutes (i'm talking about budgets significantly less than yours though) which we were expecting. Agent said it's best to offer our best and final now so we did offer another 5k which was our best. Vendor took 26 hours to come back and the agents were keeping me informed and said it was probably a good thing she was taking her time and it was a good offer. Vendor said no. Agents were very surprised as they said they thought it was fair and they said she didn't want asking price but close to (we were only 5k under!) So could we go up. I said we couldn't. After I looked at our finances and we could scrape another 2k so we were going to offer it but after 2 hours they phoned and said the vendors daughter (she was an elderly widowed lady who had great sentimental value in her home) talked her into accepting so we got it.

She was desperate to sell too, with 4 mortgages and had huge debt problems. The house does also have issues like needing new roof, bathroom very dated, woodworm, kitchen floor is definitely damp but we knew she wouldn't come down again so we did have to suck it up as we knew we wouldn't get this size house for the price. We certainly won't make anything on it but I do love it so I can be happy with our decision.

If we had gone up again, in light of the survey I would have felt resentful of the amount of money we are spending on it.

Given the prices of the nearby ones, I wouldnt go too high. It's a hell of a lot of money for a 1 bed that has problems when you could get a 3 bed nearby for cheaper. I would make the agent more than aware of that as everyone checks the competition online these days so any other buyer will do exactly the same.

Ok so agent called me and said there's been an offer of 740k from a man who is waiting for an offer on his house and the owner is waiting this week to see if he gets this offer in. I said "that's a bit odd given how adamant you were time was such a big factor for her!" To which she replied that that's true but she's not desperate...she basically used those words last time. I told her we had other options, lovely and needing no work but in less preferred areas. Then asked if in theory the vendor would take a slightly higher offer from us over this man'a, given out situation. She said "oooo I don't know. You wouldn't know for days as she's waiting to see what happens. I guess if I were you I would offer my highest and leave it there for her."

Then the phone cut off in the middle of her sentence and she didn't call back! Definitely not calling her back...she admitted to calling me rather than my husband as I liked the place more even though she'd told him she would keep HIM updated.

Why did she call me, if not to get me going so as to encourage a high counter offer? Isn't not calling back a bit odd and game-playing? What would you do next?

I would continue house hunting. I don't like playing games like this. I will add that the vendors of my current home rejected my offer so I continued looking, they came back a week later and asked if the offer was still on the table as they were willing to accept it.

It would be nice if that happened. I guess we have absolutely nothing to gain by upping to best and final now, considering agent said that vendor would be more inclined once this mans solid offer doesn't materialise...

I don't believe the man exists

I'll bet there is no other bid, estate agent works for the vendor remember.

We looked at a house back in the summer, were in a good position to proceed. House had been on the market 10 months without reducing the price. Vendor conducted the second viewing as agent couldn't, vendor said they had received one offer a few months previously which they had turned down as too low for them.

We attempted to negotiate at around 10% under asking price, agent says there are several other viewers. Can't believe there were. Anyway, I had a bad feeling about the vendor from various things he had said and we decided not to pursue it. Agent rang a few times to try and persuade us to change our minds.

Another 6 months later and the house is still on the market at the same price! Glad we walked away. Have now found somewhere else much better and hoping to complete within the month.

Eh? You are planning to spend 700k on a one bed property when you plan to be a family of 4 soon? How is this going to work? Why not buy the lovely 3 bed around the corner?

See, op? I'm not the only one who thinks you are a bit nuts you need to forget about this property.

Think bigger, think different area. What sort of help will you be able to give your husband's family when you are the parents of two very tiny children?

I understand what you say about the buggy and stairs. Back when our two eldest were two and one (and I was expecting DS3!) we turned down a house as steps at the front meant it was awkward with the buggy!

Looking back now we feel we were mad - they are only babies a short while and it gets so much easier pretty quickly. It would have been tricky but doable and the house was good in so many other ways.

Yes maybe we area but crazy...but the plan at the moment is find a 2-3 year home with outside space while we decide which area we want to be our proper "family home" for the long haul. As it will most likely have to be out of our comfort zones and very different from where we are at now. So this home will be short term, pretty central, and as convenient for 2 under 2 as possible. Where we are living is up a flight outside, then one long one inside and it's not very convenient. The place we like would be a good size 2 bed with an amazing large family space, if we get it, which is perfect for us in short term.

The pressure of school catchments vs affordability was driving us a bit crazy so far in advance (I know it's necessary when buying longer term but still! It's 4 years away!) so we came up with this interim plan...

Why not rent for now then? Surely with stamp duty that makes more sense.

And why would the agent call you back? She's conveyed what she needed to.

And she's not playing games, she's doing her job!

If she's just doing her job and not playing games then fair enough. Although many people would say playing games is part of their job? I don't think there's anything we can do anyway except wait and offer our best and final if she gets in touch again and the vendor is open to us.

OP you don't spend 700k on a home for 2 years! That's £25k in stamp duty and fees - or over £1k a month over two years... Also if the market has dipped by that point you will not want to 'sit it out' in a place so undersized.

Why on earth are you not looking to rent?

I will join in with the others who say buying a large one bedroom flat that you need to renovate to live in for 2 years makes no sense.

Why do the work with little ones around -- it is a nightmare.

Take the 3 bedroom flat with the stairs.

Good point. May be time to re-evaluate the plan, said the very green house buyer...this particular place would do through primary school with 2 kids, because of the living space, but isn't in a super desirable primary school catchment. It would work for longer term...but the general plan may be flawed. Thanks all, not sure why everyone I told thought this was a brilliant plan in real life?!

On whatever we bought we would do the work before we moved in.

Feel free to link to the houses you were considering....

Some people will hang on for a better offer. Even if one never comes along. That was quite a substantial amount below the asking price even if it is a bit over priced. If people get a hint of prices stagnating I think the market will stall and become quite difficult. Same as if people get a hint of prices rises they rush in with their offers and gazump and so on. It's a mob thing. IMHO,

We are planning to rent out our place from when we move out, so we should make up that money and be able to live somewhere bigger with a garden, then move on.

An agent friend called incognito today to find out what offers were really on the table. Another agent told him a lady had offered 725k but the owner wanted more people through the door before accepting something so low. I wonder if the 740 was completely made up and the 725 is an exaggerated me, or the actual offer is 725...

I think you're bonkers :-) absolutely no way would I want to be doing the work on turning a 1 bed into a 2 bed, not living there, pregnant, with a toddler!

I've done the work on our own house, loft conversion, living here to keep an eye on things, with a toddler and pregnant by the end and that was bad enough.

My own view is that you're overthinking the steps and underthinking 1. Garden (if you're pregnant with a toddler, having a small outdoor space where the child can potter and you can sit and watch is a godsend, ditto paddling pool) and 2. How quickly school admissions come round, and importance of schools.

Sounds like your DC is 1 or thereabouts? So you're looking at Sep 2018 entry, so admission applications open Sept/Oct 2017 and close around first week Jan 18. If you were planning to move again for schools, you would need to be buying this flat, do the work, move in, get it on the market, sell it, find a new place, move in - all within about 2.5 years for comfort, 2y11m pushing it to the absolute deadline. Oh, and have another baby in that time too .

^^ from BlackbirdonTheWire

Start looking for a property suitable to take you all through primary school of your choice now. Anything else would be bonkers. Unless you routinely like to hand over 25k to the govt

Yes. You have a very happy situation to be mortgage-free at those amounts; you could get a house or a large 2-3 bed maisonnet/flat in a converted period house or some other nice setup, somewhere fairly central near an excellent primary school! Renovations with small DC are very hard, and definitely not worth the time, effort and incredible difficulty for such a short period. And then there's the stamp duty! And the fact that if the market falls you have one problem but if it rises you may be priced out of the areas you could afford now... You'll be applying for primary from whatever address you have in Jan while your older DC is 3, so it is probably not 4 full years away.

Also while of course buggy/stairs is inconvenient, zillions of Londoners do it, and generally, property market things outlast the buggy stage ...