Talk to me about condensation

[HeyMacWey]

Since autumn has appeared overnight I woke up this morning to find condensation on all the windows.

How can I minimise it?

Central heating is not yet on. House is double glazed bar two windows and generally warm in the mornings.

Have a woodburner and the last few days have been putting it on about 2ish and then putting load of coal on at about 5pm so it simmers gently all evening and ensures that it's warm when dh gets in about 11ish.

Today I've kept the upstairs windows open a few cm to keep air flowing to see if that makes a difference.

Should I keep them open all night?

Clothes have been line dried and then finished off on an airer in the bathroom with the extractor on (door closed).

I've been squeegeeing the water off first thing and then noticed condensation building up on the unglazed windows when it gets dark.

Should I put the central heating on for an hour or would that not make a difference?

Any tips most welcome

We've bought a dehumidifier this year. Made a noticeable difference to condensation and dries washing (doesn't eat electricity like tumble driers do). It is also deeply satisfying emptying it and seeing how much water you have cleverly removed from the air .

Piglet john has brill advice !

we have floor to ceiling windows and i hate this time of year because every morning its the "condensation work out"

so these are my tips to minimise it..... and it does help (a bit)

Try to open your windows as much as you can to air the rooms out (but its best to do this when the humidity levels are lowish outside - if you click this link and get the weather for your area if you look there is a bit your can click that says "humidity" and this shows the levels during the course of the day and if you can open your windows when its at its lowest. If you open windows when the humidity is high outside you are letting moisture INTO your home so watch those humidity levels: (apparently optium health humidity for health is 50% humidity as spores cant grow etc - i dont think we have ever got as low as 50%)! www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gcw6qkpf7

Check your insulation in your loft - especially if you get those black bits of mould on your ceiling - we had black mould all along one wall at the ceiling and it turned out that the insulation had been moved by a plumber so we put it back and treated the mould and it didnt come back. Make sure you have good insulation as condensation forms when the air hits a cold surface - the more insulation you have the warmer the surface is!

Always when you cook have lids on your pans - not only will your food cook quicker you save on your energy bill and keep the steam in. Use extractors and open the windows if your extractor is not powerful enough to get all the steam out or you dont have one. Keep the kitchen door shut while cooking and for a short time after to stop moisture going round the rest of your home.

If you have to dry clothes try to do this in a room where you can keep the window open and the door shut to stop moisture going round your home. If you have a tumble dryer use it. Always try if you can to do your washing when its dry (check the weather forecast on the link above - even if it is cold your washing will dry if the humidty levels are low enough - I peg mine out if its dry in January if the humidity is below 60% - it gets half dry and I finish it in the tumble dryer - yes the clothes are cold but half dry so it saves energy - you should see the steam that comes off them when they are pegged out in January sun!

When using bathroom for showers/bath - ALWAYS use extractor and open the window if its really steamy - shut the door to keep the moisture out of the rest of the home.

Always clean off the condensation from your windows - its a breeding ground for mould spores and you will get mould on your curtains. If like me you have those fabric vertical blinds use Milton sterilising fluid on a 50/50 mix with water to spray on to get rid of the mould (but dry them outside)! If like me some days your condensation is pretty bad, you might need to wipe/squeegie off the condensation and come back later and do it all again.

If you have patches of damp on your ceiling that have a brown coloured ring or rim around them, then check for leaks - it could be pipes or roof. There are many other things that can cause damp on walls and if its just one wall in your home that is damp then it could be something that needs a bit of maintenance like your guttering (needs cleaning out/blocked/not fitted correctly), or the damp proof course has been breached on the outside of your home - if the damp comes from the bottom of the wall.

HeyMacWey why do you use the woodburner rather than the central heating?
I don't know how much products of combustion come out into the house, but when you burn wood / coal etc, water is one of the products. So some of the water could be coming from the wood / coal burning?

Remember to keep bathroom extractor on for at least 20 mins after leaving the room. Also, use a kitchen extraction hood when cooking, including when you boil the kettle for tea. I agree with the dryer/outside drying comments.

Excellent - loads of brilliant tips. Love the humidity website

addicted I use the burner as I'd rather give my money to my lovely local wood man rather than lining the pockets of the energy companies. Also I don't need to heat more than one room during the day and the heat generally travels throughout the rest of the house making it toasty in the evening.

With older properties, ventilation is key.

Often 'improvement' works can cause more harm than good. Houses then were built to be able to breathe and that kept them from getting damp. Modern houses are basically big plastic boxes - totally different construction and materials. Mixing the two is not normally a great thing.

Opening windows as often as possible is probably your best bet for condensation.. not much fun in the winter though. Would a dehumidifier be an option for those months?

I certainly hope that all the smoke and fumes are going up the chimney, and not into the house.

As the brickwork warms up, it will become drier, and lose some of the moisture it has absorbed.

So do I! Pretty sure nothing is coming out into the room - have a carbon monoxide alarm which is checked regularly.

we have single glazed windows. tons of condensation every morning. i just wipe it off.

My top tip is the instant glazing film which tapes over windows. We are in a rented cottage which is very damp and has lots of windows. The windows with film have zero condensation, it's all concentrated on the few that we left, to open up occasionally! Also dehumidifier upstairs and downstairs. Aldi one is very good.

oK Piglet John, and others, immigrant from the dry American west here. Help and advice appreciated.

We moved in August to 110 year old tenement flat, ground floor. Original windows, about 12 feet high, much too expensive to replace.

Last owner added DIY ensuite, given after the fact planning approval , extractor fan duct goes up out of the bathroom, but then down the utility room (former coal bunker) wall and under the floorboards, no cellar or basement, just dirt under there. Have not inspected further where vent actually vents, assuming it does. Between breathing and shower usage, front bedroom windows have quickly developed black mold. Or redeveloped after previous owner scrubbed and painted for viewings, I'm sure.

We have been opening windows, but that only dries bedroom window somewhat as no direct sun.

Kitchen fan is the kind that is simply a grease filter, doesnt exhaust air, despite being on outside wall. We do have a hook to open upper window a wee bit while cooking, but that makes things colder and condensation worse, it seems.

Original bathroom has useless power shower, so minor condensation, no fan, just a window.

Washing machine in utility room. Condenser dryer located at the back of a deep storage closet, making it useless for much storage, and adding yet more moisture.

OUR PLAN:
short term: dehumidifier, being delivered tomorrow to sit in closet with dryer. Closet and front bedroom doors at right angles to each other, so effective in bedroom also, I hope. One of those window extractor fan things in kitchen and another in front bedroom, despite being ugly, if allowed. Probably one in original bathroom, especially if not allowed in front window.

Was considering a panel heater to run briefly each day in front bedroom window alcove, or a heater fan?

And now I have heard of it: The window vacuum thing? Does this attach to a pole? If not, I shall have to move a kingsize bed and bring a ladder in the bedroom daily. Not a viable plan.

Long term, stacked w/d with the condenser plumbed to drain, in utility room. Eventual kitchen remodel when proper extractor hood, attached to hole in wall, is planned. Eventual replacement of windows with double glazed version that others on the block have gotten planning approval for.

Do I sound sensible?

I bought a Dinky Moisture Trap from Lakeland last year and it was BRILLIANT. Left it on the bathroom windowsill and the condensation stopped. Same in my daughter's bedroom. I've just been on their website and looks like they're only selling the refills this year, but they have another moisture trap that uses crystals. If Lakeland sell something it is usually good.

www.lakeland.co.uk/21538/Moisture-Trap

A heater in front of the windows will not do anything much, except to warm the birds.

Ventilation is your best friend in removing the water vapour from your home. If the walls are solid brick, probably 9" or 13" thick, a Core Drill (from a tool hire shop, or a small builder or plumber can do it) can cut neat round holes for 4" duct, which most extractor fans and cooker hoods fit. Removing water vapour at source in the bathroom especially, and in the kitchen, will greatly reduce moisture in your home. If you are getting a dehumidifier, put it in the bedroom where you will probably spend hours in end breathing.

You could temporarily and inexpensively use the plastic film on the windows which will cut condensation on the glass. Also look at roller blinds, which will give a pocket of still air between the window and the room, reducing heat loss. If the windows slidt, you need furry pile or "brush" draught excluder, look on ebay. Your local DIY shed may have it, but more likely just "P" and "E" profile EDPM for hinged doors and windows. The foam strip is not much good.

You use the word tenement, so are perhaps in Scotland which is relatively cool and sometimes has cloud and rain. How is your home heated?

If the floor is stone or concrete, tape a piece of clear plastic tightly to it, and observe if water droplets form underneath it.

Buy a King Size electric blanket.

We have a problem in our small bedroom. Windows not too bad but the walls keep getting mould on especially behind wardrobe in the corner. Room sticks out the back of house so has 3 outside walls. Couple of areas for damp/mould. Have recently bought a dehumidifier which collects loads of water but I'm concerned there are a few areas of plaster that feel too soft. There is also one small brown circular blob (as mentioned above??) 3/4 of the way up the wall, again by the wardrobe - which is 2-3 inches away from the wall anyway. Any ideas?
Bedroom is near bathroom. We do always open windows after showering etc but problem getting much worse again now temp dropping.

I'm a window vac fan too (have a Leifheit one - was cheaper than karcher) - use for condensation on the windows but also on the inside of the shower after use - as the shower wall/screen dries the only place the water can go is into the atmosphere ....and cause condensation - and this has made a difference....
What caused our condensation to get worse was sealing up the draughty double glazing ...ventilation is key...
Bathroom ventilation can depend on more than size of fan. This is hard to describe- so did a sketch - bathroom is about 5m long. It was badly insulated with two external walls and the roof - it was freezing. A couple of years ago I insulated the eaves, the external wall behind the bath and all the walls/sloped roof and I draught proofed eg the access hatch to the eaves storage cupboard (and we have CWI)!...
I now have mould on the window/fan wall . Looking into it I discovered the fan is pulling air in from under the door but it can't pull air from the main body of the room. The moist air travels slowly towards the window area but I would need to leave the fan on for hours to stop the mould. Ideally the fan should be above the bath - pulling air from under the door through the room - but for various reasons I can't have a fan in that wall. So instead I am having two vents installed - a closeable one above the bath (pulling air from the top of the stairs -hot air rises so it shouldn't be too cold) and one straight through the top shower wall. The fan should then be pulling air through the bathroom rather than just from under the door...and hopefully problem will be solved (a shower fan would be great too but this worth a try).

could you have a ducted fan above the ceiling?

Is your current fan a typical 4" 80cu.m/hr one?

Mouldypineapple

An extractor fan in the bathroom is better for sucking out the steam than a window is

Condensation behind a wardrobe is common. Due to restricted air circulation, it will be especially cold. Can the wardrobe be moved to an internal wall? If it is a built-in wardrobe, you could use a pipe heater or apply impervious insulation to the wall. Otherwise, sadly, drilling holes through the wall would reduce condensation. Surprisingly, cold outside air carries less water vapour than warm inside air. There is more water in a cu. metre of hot dry Sahara air than in a cu. metre of cold damp Glasgow air.

It is a standard fan - 100 or 110 mm duct? - can't remember the numbers but it is a good one (as in in theory it should be strong enough - problem seems to be it isn't circulating the air in the whole room ... I did think about replacing it with one with a humidistat though...but it would be working harder than it needs to be...if that makes sense.)

Ceiling ducted is something I thought about but would need to duct out of the same wall - so above the bath then length of the room back and it is a steep roof - you can't actually stand upright in half the bath -accessible roof space minimal - above the shower better. (I think you might have to access it through the ceiling than from the attic) And I would have another hole in my wall...and its a kind of pebble dash - hard to match so probably better to leave the current fan vent in there....
(was originally a tiny bathroom - the bath was where the shower is and it was extended back into a storage area by a previous owner -who for this and other reasons I call Mr Bodge-it Eg the waste pipe from the step up into shower goes through the wall, behind the bath panel, back through the eaves to the internal stack in the window wall ...did shorten it a bit by putting it in front of rather than behind the bath - still didn't have enough fall on it so it got horrendously blocked - ended up knocking bits out of the wall in the room underneath to put the feed into the stack lower down to get enough fall - in truth the whole thing needs ripping out and redoing properly - but with the 'structural' work involved to do it properly it would be ££££££££)

I actually like to think of my single glazed windows AS dehumidifiers. Of course, that's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. What you don't want is cold walls and damp collecting on walls, I reckon (I am just theorizing, somebody call bullshit any time) because walls go mouldy. Windows don't, but window frames and edges do, so you have to care for those. But I wipe down my windows so that rids the house of a lot of moisture.

Actually the best eg of Mr Bodge-it's bathroom was that he moved the loo cistern back into the eaves cupboard (so made it concealed). He left the overflow pipe in the wall, just cut it off flat on the outside (no protection from driving rain) and put a bit of filler in it on the inside - the reason for my first damp spot! He also reused the cistern - with the external overflow not connected to anything - so when the valve went it was overflowing straight onto the ceiling downstairs - first I knew of it was when I had to make drain holes in the plasterboard to stop the ceiling coming down...

pJ: thanks.Walls are sandstone, eventually ventilation should go through walls, instead of windows, but we want to avoid putting holes in walls that end up needing to be elsewhere. The wall where the stove is now, is not where we want to have the stove. The ensuite, it is in the cheapest place to build, suitable only for someone remodelling in terms of box ticking. It makes the smaller bedroom, smaller yet, and the ventilation isnt adequate. Long term, part of the huge original bathroom + some of the internal hall would make a better ensuite attached to the bigger bedroom, with a short bit of outside wall for a better extraction fan to vent through and delete the one they built.

"You could temporarily and inexpensively use the plastic film on the windows"
Will examine, these windows are hugely wide and tall, not sure. The stuff is big enough. But maybe I can at least cover the top sash, so
I dont have to dry it's tiny, decorative panes. The lower sash is taller than me, I am average height, but I can reach to dry it without a ladder. The windows have been reconditioned, with new brushes, weights and cords.

"You use the word tenement, so are perhaps in Scotland which is relatively cool and sometimes has cloud and rain. How is your home heated?"

Indeed, we are in Glasgow. There is the occasional bit of rain. We have radiators. One completely removed fireplace, one bricked up, one converted to gas fireplace and one we arent sure of. At least 2 of the 3 on floors above are in working order, but we can't feel/smell any draft on ours, so we think it is sealed, somewhere. It's on the long list of things to get properly checked.

"If the floor is stone or concrete" they are wood. Though not creaky or bendy or moldy anywhere.

"Buy a King Size electric blanket." This has never been a good option with my dh. He gets too warm. Even if we get the kind where the two sides have separate controls and his is off.

Beeeelaine

That metoffice link you posted comes up as, presumably, your last or usual check in point. It happens to be within a mile of my house, if so. We Could Get Coffee!

We have a house c1900. It has solid brick walls and double glazing so condensation is always an issue and we are often cleaning mould off corners. We had work done on our house and the additional insulation has helped. We have also had dummy walls put in in the lounge which effectively create a cavity wall, so we're free of mould there. Generally we have extractors in all bathrooms/toilets, we use a Karcher window vac on the glass, we ventilate the rooms every morning (I hate having to make the rooms cold), we have a dehumidifier in the kitchen and we leave a gap between furniture and external walls to maintain the airflow. They say that heating your house in bursts (eg mornings and evenings and turning it off the rest of the day and night) makes condensation worse, but who's got the money to heat the house 24 hours?! We did look into getting an extractor system for the bedrooms but it did require a large roof space which we don't have. However, we have minimal problems now with the precautions we take so it's not too bad.

Thanks PigletJohn. Drilling holes in the wall sounds a bit extreme! I'm sure there is a proper way to do it..
Difficult to move wardrobe really as the only internal wall is small as it has the door in it too.
Will get decent extractor fan for bathroom and keep going with dehumidifier. Think at some point all the walls are going to need re plastering, but then worried it may come back!