Plumbing, heating and water system for 5 bed, 3.5 bath house - recommendations pls

[thesaurusgirl]

Posting for my parents.

House has had no work done since 1979 so it's a total gut job. Plumbers coming round to quote later this week but here's the wishlist and Mum would love some recommendations of models, brands etc.

2 bathrooms currently, but future proof for 3 bathrooms and a downstairs loo
Really powerful water pressure (even when three showers are all going at once)
Instant hot water
Hot water that never runs out
Minimal variation in temperature (so doesn't go cold when someone flushes a loo or runs at tap)
Gas fire in sitting room
Gas 5 burner hob
Victorian radiators throughout
Trench heating in kitchen along bi-folds
Wet underfloor heating in 3 bathrooms and hallway
Controllable heat
Mains water softener

What have we forgotten? This is my parents' last home, they want it to be minimal maintenance, and to be able to entertain Air BnB type paying guests as well as grandchildren. They are not millionaires but they're downsizing so budget is less of an issue than performance.

Thank you all for advice (makes eyes at PigletJohn).

Okay I'll take a look.

Previous owner was elderly, on her own so perhaps was used to immersion only hot water so they gave her the "cheapest" option both the central heating engineer searched for pipes for the coil and they're not there only evidence for electric immersion at the top - he was pretty too!

Guess we will look at getting a new water supply pipe (feels like a complete money pit at the moment...)

If we waited to change the cylinder what extra pipes would be looking at getting installed - wonder if we could install them but not connect them whilst the work is being done and do the tank at a later point in time!

two 22mm pipes, insulated, between where the cylinder is/will be and where the boiler is/will be.

You do not have to fit pipes that will be exposed/very easily accessible in advance, but you ought to fit any pipes that will be covered up/boxed in/inside walls/under floors as they will be tiresome to fit later.

It is possible to use plastic pipes, which are flexible and easier to poke through voids. It must be barrier pipe (the plumber of heating engineer will know that) and usually there will be copper pipe attached to the boiler where it is hottest.

If you are possibly going to get an unvented cylinder, a 22mm pipe from the incoming water main to it, and 22mm pipes from it towards each bathroom or shower. Also cold water pipes to each bathroom or shower. Very often you can reuse existing pipes unless they are lead, iron, or imitation copper, or too small.

Another probably stupid question!

What it be madness to fit a gas instaneous boiler instead of have stored hot water after all it's for hand washing and baths...

A bath needs a powerful flow of hot water. You would need an unusually large heater, or one with storage. I can't see the point, if you are going to have a gas boiler to heat the house it makes more sense to let it heat the water as well.

Ordinary combis (30kw power) are quite slow to fill a bath and are disappointing if you are trying to supply two bathrooms at the same time.

Decide first if you are going to upgrade the incoming water supply.

Then consider what is the least complicated design.

Some will disagree, but I say that combis go wrong more often than conventional or system boilers (because they have more inside to go wrong, as well as an extra heat exchanger that can clog), and I say that with some kind of cylinder, you can always heat it electrically when the boiler is out of action, or by solar, or if you feel like it for some other reason.

I think the water pipe goes under our concrete drive although the drive does need repair/replacement it is absolutely huge...

So assuming I upgrade the water pipes and carry on using my existing gas boiler (which they've said is fine)

What again is my best option...

So boiler & pump is staying on ground/basement floor, I could place an unvented cylinder onto the same level (but in a different room) and that would give us a decent shower on any floor?

Yes.

A 250 litre unvented cylinder weighs over a quarter of a ton, so is best downstairs. You can put it in a corner as long as it is accessible for sevicing (for example next to a freestanding appliance that can be rolled out if the way, not built-in). It needs access to a drain as it has a pressure-relief valve.

p.s.

A new water pipe does not always have to follow the same route as the old one.

Oh bloody hell - what kind of drain????

I am a bit scared having seen the exploding ones!!

I think there is room for one at the bottom of the stairs in what will be the utility cupboard. Which is better washing maching and tumble drier stacked next to the external wall and cylinder next to it or vice versa.

On the outside it is the concrete driveway that runs the whole depth of the house, does it need some sort of proper into the ground drain, or just a soak away or could we literally just pipe it away to a erm the ground drain elsewhere? Driveway has a massive slope...

So would this get rid of the header tanks? See I'm REALLY now!

Oh and for the even better news how much am a looking at for a cylinder and of course it will have fitting costs on top

The same drain that you use for sink or washing machine is fine.

It is impossible to make it burst unless you remove or disable all the safety devices. These are checked during installation and servicing by a qualified person.

Hmm don't have a drain as such - washing mahine and sink are going to be pumped - does the pressure relief valve get used a lot?

Can't locate the mains water route into the house but my next question is we have a water meter in the middle of the driveway but in the pavement so surely we're going to have to dig up the pavement a bit????

the pressure relief valve will release water approximately never, but may drip or spurt if the pressure goes too high, in which case there is a fault that needs repair. Most modern boilers do the same. It will be clean hot water, you might be allowed to discharge it onto the ground, I don't know. Unvented cylinders have their own rules. It is arranged so that you can see if it is dripping. You might be able to run it to the pumped sink drain.

I don't know how much you will have to dig up. Water meters are more often in the pavement. Your water co will have a register of approved plumbers, but if you do it yourself, or a plumber not on their list, they will inspect your pipe to see it conforms to regulation. There will not be a charge for the inspection. They will charge if they have to dig up the pavement except that if it is a lead pipe, they may have a lead replacement scheme. If you think you have lead pipes, ask the water co to test your drinking water (free) for lead content, and search their website for lead schemes. Usually a builder or labourer digs the trench as most plumbers are frail and weedy.

Perhaps I will ban baths and just use the kettle for the occasional washing up and just not have running hot water...

It will be lovely when it's finished.

BTW you ought to have your own thread because your situation is different from thesaurusparents.

I know I know...

How about a free long weekend in the Lake District in exchange for just telling what system to get and where to site everything. I honestly cannot believe we managed to buy a house with such a weird set up and need to sort something out asap due to basement work!