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New radiators not getting hot..

44 replies

Marmitelover55 · 09/10/2014 18:30

Our extension was finished in the summer and we have a new boiler, 2 new radiators, a heated towel rail and plinth heater connected to the central heating system. Today is the first day of turning the heating on, although I have vague recollections of the plumber testing it back in July.

Out old radiators are all nice and hot (after bleeding them), but the new ones are only luke warm. I haven't tried the plinth heater yet.

Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions about why and what we can do to get them hotter?

Thanks.

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Marmitelover55 · 10/10/2014 17:53

Ok I have turned hot water off. Water is quite hot but not really hot. I can't turn new rads above 5 -as that is the max. Other rads cooling down nicely. New rads definitely warmer but not really hot.

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PigletJohn · 10/10/2014 17:54

half an hour.

PigletJohn · 10/10/2014 18:02

meanwhile look for your set of screwdrivers and your smallest adjustable spanner. The 4-inch one or smaller.

Marmitelover55 · 10/10/2014 18:33

Just having Chinese takeaway and will then look for tools... New rads are as hot now as old ones Smile Hot water seems about same thdtemp as it was. Sounds like you think we can fix this PigletJohn? Thanks

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PigletJohn · 10/10/2014 19:21

yes, all the radiators need balancing. I think I will find a link tomorrow.

For tonight, set the TRVs on the old radiators rather cool - say, number 2. There will be a delay before the new rads warm up, because it will not be until the old rooms meet their target temperature. We can adjust it better tomorrow.

You can turn the hw on again, but leave it off as much as you can tomorrow. If the cylinder gets heated even when hw is set to off, that indicates a different problem.

Has your boiler got a pressure gauge on it?

Marmitelover55 · 10/10/2014 19:30

Thanks - don't think the boiler has a pressure gauge - it is a new Viessmann one. We are going out dancing now, so will check in tomorrow Smile

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PigletJohn · 10/10/2014 19:49

Might be a Viessmann 100 compact. Very good little boiler.

Marmitelover55 · 10/10/2014 20:23

Looks like it is a vitodens 100 w...

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PigletJohn · 11/10/2014 14:42

Back.

So it appears that the system needs balancing. Other people reading this might have different causes.

Your objective is to slow down the flow of water so that it travels through all the radiators at about the same speed. If it is unrestricted, it will rush through the easiest path, and hardly at all through the longest or most difficult route, resulting in some hot radiators and some cold ones.

The valve at the opposite end from your TRV or knob is called a "lockshield". This is because the spindle is covered by a plastic cover which is fixed into place, usually with a screw. It does not have a turnable knob. This is so that once you have spent time and effort adjusting it, nobody will come along and turn it. The flow through any one radiator will affect all the others, so you have to do them all. It is useful to screw down each lockshield to fully closed, and write down the turns, to the nearest quarter-turn, so that you can put it back to its previous adjustment.

It is essential to know that water does not squirt through radiator valves like through a sink tap. It moves quite sedately. Also, most of the difference between "closed" and "maximum flow" is in the first two turns from closed. So adjusting from fully open to half open to three quarters make next to no difference.

I'd suggest turning of the heating for an hour, so all the radiators cool down. While this is happening, remove the retaining screw from all the lockshield caps. Under each, you will find a spindle, usually flattened at the end. BTW, old valves sometimes leak round the spindle. If that happens, quickly screw it all the way open, or all the way closed, and it will probably stop. You must however replace it soon.

Using your smallest adjustable spanner, adjusted to be a tight fit on the flats of the lockshield spindle, screw it down to fully closed. Count the number of turns from its previous position. If it takes a lot of turns, you can assume it was wrongly adjusted. Do that to all the radiators. The TRV or knob at the other end should be set to fully on - that one is an on/off, not an adjuster.

Now turn the heating back on, with the room stat set high. Go to the nearest radiator and open the lockshield by one turn. Feel the pipes at each end. Within a minute one of them will have started warming up. If not, open the lockshield another half turn. Once you have opened it enough to get some flow, do not adjust it again by more than a quarter turn in either direction every ten minutes.

Get a notebook and keep track of how much you have opened each lockshield.

Adjust the lockshields on all the other rads by the same amount, just enough to get one of the pipes warm. Within ten minutes you should find that the tops of all the radiators are hot.

Now feel the pipes again. The pipe at the incoming end of the radiator should be "too hot to hold". The pipe at the other end (return) should be less hot. You cannot be sure in advance which will be the flow and which the return.

If any of the return pipes are also "too hot to hold" then that radiator is taking too much flow. Screw down the lockshield by a quarter turn and wait ten minutes. Go round and feel all the other radiators. The heat should be spreading downwards from the top. If any of them are warming unusually slowly, open its lockshield by another quarter turn and feel it again after another ten minutes.

By now, all the return pipes should be hot. The should not be as hot as the Flow pipes. They should be "too hot to hold for long". If you happen to have pipe thermometers or an infra-red detecting digital thermometer, you would like them to be about 20C cooler than the flow pipes, but if not, your hand will do.

After half an hour the temperatures will have stabilised. Feel all the radiators and all the pipes. You can now adjust where necessary, but by no more than an eighth of a turn in half an hour.

The room where the thermostat on the wall is fitted, adjust that radiator to warm up slower than all the others. If it has a TRV (it shouldn't) turn it up to max. This is because, once that room reaches target temperature, the heating will go off. If any of the other rooms are slower to heat, they will stay cold.

Now fit the covers back on the lockshields and keep your adjustment notes with the boiler instructions. If anybody fiddles with the lockshields you will have to do it again.

Marmitelover55 · 11/10/2014 15:44

Thank you pigletjohn for your very detailed reply. I will give it a go tomorrow, although we have 16 rads I think and i am feeling a bit overwhelmed! I wonder if the plumber who fitted the new boiler and rads might do this for us for free, as maybe he should have done it at the time? He needs to come and replace the TRV that got broken on the hall rad anyway (hopeful emoticon)...

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PigletJohn · 11/10/2014 15:54

"All work is guaranteed until the cheque clears"

You could perhaps do the hottest rads yourself for a start. Look for the one that get hot fastest, or feel the two pipes and see if they are both very hot.

Marmitelover55 · 11/10/2014 16:09

Oh that's pretty much what the builders said themselves Hmm Yes that sounds a good idea - will start with the really hot ones. Thank you Smile

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Marmitelover55 · 14/10/2014 23:11

Fingers crossed, the builder and plumber are hopefully popping in on Monday to look at this and another minor issue Smile...

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PigletJohn · 15/10/2014 00:45

If they fit a new TRV, insist on another Drayton TRV4 to match the others.

It is simpler than finding out if they are offering you an alternative of equivalent high quality (there are not many). It is a few pounds more expensive than any other common valve.

Marmitelover55 · 15/10/2014 11:44

Thank you pigletjohn Thanks - will do

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Marmitelover55 · 25/10/2014 10:47

Well the plumber has finally been and has balanced all of the rads. Extension now really, really warm Smile I think he was slightly surprised by my apparent knowledge thanks to you guys and especially piglet John. Unfortunately new TRV did not fit so he will need to come back again...

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jengie82 · 21/09/2017 13:04

Hi.the heating in my house works fine apart from 3 radiators upstairs.
One in the hall way and the two kids bedrooms. Either the two kids rooms is boiling hot and if i turn the dial it's dose nothing.and then the landing is stone cold. Or the other way round. I can't get a happy medium. I don't want the kids burning them self's as the rads get that hot.

PigletJohn · 21/09/2017 13:40

Best to start a new thread.

Seventiescarpetswirls · 15/01/2019 20:42

Sorry to bump an old thread, bit honestly pigletjohn you are amazing! Your detailed explanation is exactly what i will be following if our plumbers don't pull their fingers out and balance our heating properly. Have just had full system replaced (boiler, pipes and rads) and noticed the hot and top cold at bottom issue and found this thread). Thank you for all your time and effort in your explanation

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