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Original poster

Do estate agents usually ask for a section 21 to be signed before the tenancy starts?

23 replies

Onetwothreeoops · 07/10/2014 18:22

We have been assured verbally that the property is available long term but have been given a section 21 notice to sign with our tenancy agreement.

As I've never had to sign one before I thought I would just see if anyone has any experience of this with agencies generally.

Thanks

OP posts:

specialsubject · 07/10/2014 18:39

what?

no, a section 21 is a notice to quit after the fixed term. So you'll be leaving at the end of that. Don't sign it.

now, the landlord may be understandably nervous about committing long-term to unknown tenants. The way round that is a long tenancy with a break clause after six, twelve months or whatever.

contact the LANDLORD, not the shyster agent to ask for what you want and see if it can be negotiated.

Original poster

Onetwothreeoops · 07/10/2014 20:55

The agent is telling me that they have one signed for every tenancy and then a new agreement is issued when it ends as long as we want to renew it.

I don't think it sounds right.

OP posts:

InfinitySeven · 07/10/2014 21:00

Best case scenario, they want new tenancy fees from you every time.

Worst case, they'll kick you out when it runs out. You'd have no argument.

I wouldn't sign.

wowfudge · 07/10/2014 21:03

If you sign that you're saying - at this stage before you've moved in - that you'll leave at the end of the initial tenancy. Despite what the agent has told you, who's to say you won't have to move out after just six months?

To my mind that's a despicable way to treat a tenant. Don't sign it. special is right - speak to the landlord.

Ebayaholic · 07/10/2014 21:08

btl lenders often won't lend to landlords if the section 21 isn't served upfront.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 07/10/2014 21:09

No way. Don't sign it! Sneaky bastards.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 07/10/2014 21:10

BTL lenders are sneaky cunts too. Hate them all.

sillymillyb · 07/10/2014 21:19

I used to be an estate agent and we never did this - sounds really dodgy to me and I would steer well clear!

bookishandblondish · 07/10/2014 21:34

Have done it twice - estate agents in London. Stayed 3 years in both flats - admittedly was given notice by landlords both times.

Only ever heard of it in London so think it's a feature of the London property market.

specialsubject · 07/10/2014 21:37

the only way this is appropriate is if you were agreeing to leave at the end of the fixed term, in which case it protects the landlord if you change your mind.

but this isn't what you want.

Original poster

Onetwothreeoops · 07/10/2014 21:52

We don't want to leave at the end of the term but they could always issue the section 21 two months before the end even if we didn't sign it now.

It's good to hear that this may be normal in London as we are just outside London. Maybe it's spreading out and becoming normal around this way.

I was wondering if the agents are lying to us and the property actually isn't available long term like they have verbally told us. Especially as this comes after insisting we sign the contract now even though the tenancy won't start until the middle of November.

I'm very tempted to walk away but it's not often that suitable properties come up and I don't want to leave the area because the kids are in school here.

OP posts:

InfinitySeven · 08/10/2014 13:25

I'm just outside London too, and I've never heard of this.

It's your risk to take, but I'd plan for them wanting you out when the S21 runs out.

You're right that they could give you notice 2 months before anyway, but at least you'd get notice, then. If you've already signed an S21, I don't know if they'd be legally obliged to give you further notice that you need to leave in at the end of the period - so you could get to a week before and have them casually confirm that they want the property back, as you've agreed too.

I'd say no, and walk if they won't let the house without it.

ChipsAndEgg · 08/10/2014 13:31

Are they just issuing an S21 notice early to ensure that the tenancy does not roll over to a peiodic? Prior to the current tenancy expiring they will get the tenant to sign another AST, if they don't then the S21 ensures they they have to vacate the property at the end of tenancy.

Some BTL lenders insist on an AST for a maximum of 12 months only.

NotCitrus · 08/10/2014 14:11

I had to do it for a couple landlords (in London) - it was so they could easily get us out after the 6 months if necessary, but each time they returned the torn-up s21 a month before the end of the AST with a new 6-month AST and s21 to sign, no charges involved.

They were also the best landlords I ever had. However we were dealing direct with the landlords - if an agency had been involved, I wouldn't trust any agency as far as I could throw them! Just assume agents are lying about everything that isn't in writing...

specialsubject · 08/10/2014 14:15

yes, I also think there is no assurance that the property is long-term. Decide if you want to take it on the basis that it is only for the fixed term.

signing now to secure it does make sense though.

DrewOB · 08/10/2014 14:19

I had a S21 served every 6 months while renting in London, then we resigned (at the exorbitant fee of £140 pp) each time. That lasted 3 years.

Sunnyshores · 08/10/2014 14:21

I didnt think tenants had to sign S21 as a form of agreeing to it (maybe you're signing as proof of having been given it), also I dont think you can issue them before a tenancy starts.

That said I always do one for our tenants - I issue it with a letter explaining why about a week after they've moved in. I do it just incase things go wrong and I do need to evict them after the initial term. Have never evicted after 6 months anyway. NLA advise this and I use them to produce the form.

Original poster

Onetwothreeoops · 08/10/2014 22:28

I think I will have to look further away for properties. Sunnyshores is right the notice has been served and I don't want to move into a property on that basis.

How on earth do estate agents get away with stunts like this?

OP posts:

Oakmaiden · 08/10/2014 22:31

Thing is, you are never guaranteed to be able to stay longer than the initial 6 months.

Augustwedding · 08/10/2014 22:34

Just did a course on AST and they said this is getting more and more common, they insist it is signed or they will not let you the property but may not be the case with you.

PartyFops · 08/10/2014 22:36

But you are ending an agreement before it has started, surely that makes the tenancy null and void?

ChipsAndEgg · 09/10/2014 00:25

I didn't think you had to sign S21 notices.

All the S21 will say is that they require vacant possession of the property the day after the tenancy ends. This prevents the tenancy rolling onto a Periodic tenancy. They should then do another AST. All they're doing is serving an S21 early in case you don't renew the AST.

That's how I understand it.

Sunnyshores · 09/10/2014 10:18

OP I still dont think they can serve it before the tenancy starts, but anyway that doesnt matter really as they can serve another one at any time, or just refuse to renew after 6 months anyway.

My point is, for you or for the landlord lengths of tenancies are not guaranteed and either side can be disappointed...

Having a S21 or not having one, makes no difference and guarantees nothing.You can be asked to leave after 6 months, you can decide to leave after 6 months. The important thing is that you and the landlord speak about your plans.

Knowing more about the landlords situation may make things more clear. Has the house been rented out before? Is it his former home? Is he living with parents (so maybe just saving money for a while), living in another larger house (and thus unlikley to want to move back to this one), abroad for a few years with work? Has 20 kids etc etc....

Most landlords want long term tenants.

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