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Non-double glazed windows - how bad are they?

38 replies

MillionPramMiles · 25/09/2014 13:46

A house we're thinking of buying has two bedroom windows that aren't double glazed. The windows aren't in particularly bad condition or anything (we've had a survey) and we'll want to replace them but that might take time.

How bad are non-double glazed windows for keeping out noise and cold?
I've only lived in double glazed homes for so long I'm imagining them to be freezing/noisy. We live in a busy city (planes, traffic etc though house isn't on a busy road) and I don't like the cold (though dp seems immune...).
Any thoughts appreciated...

OP posts:
Blackeyez09 · 25/09/2014 15:14

I curretly live in a house that has original sashes as well as new double glazed sashes in kitchen extension... The originals are large and gorgeous but do need renovations like draught proofing and repainting scheduled for early next year...

I don't think they are bad, can be noisy and draughty plus expect higher bills..... but are really in keeping with style of the house and are hard to come by, I think they will be less energy even after renovations but there are always other options secondary glazing or total replacement sashes... I think it really depends on

I think it also depends on value of house as if you decide to replace double glazed sashes (assuming they are sash I don't know much about original casement) are expensive but you could do standard uvpc or uvpc sash

Personally I'm opting for renovations and some secondary glazing and extra thick curtains as this is still significant cheaper than full blown replacement with hard timber and it's not a high value house... I completely detest UVPC too but I understand it can be practical!

PigletJohn · 25/09/2014 15:25

heat loss and noise will be somewhat greater, but unless the windows are very large for the room, the extra cost of heating will not be significant.

There will be a cold draught flowing down from the window in winter. Thick curtains will block it, preferably reaching to the floor, or at least the windowsill. If there is a radiator under the window, the curtains should not go in front of it, or they will direct the heat out to warm the garden. You can tuck curtains behind the top of the radiator, though it may not look neat. You can also get clip-on shelves to direct the warm air from a radiator out into the room.

Thick curtains will also muffle noise.

You will get more condensation on a single-glazed window. If the woodwork is not well-painted the water will promote rot. Good ventilation will reduce humidity. Do not drape wet washing around the house.

PigletJohn · 25/09/2014 15:28

p.s.

you can get plastic film to tape over the casement, which will reduce heat loss and condensation, it is almost as good as double glazing but not as durable. It sticks well to fresh paint, but not to dirty or scabby paint.

If you put it on the casement or sash, you can still open it for ventilation.

DayLillie · 25/09/2014 15:47

We replaced our mish-mash of original hardwood single glazed and cheap softwood double glazed with upvc double and triple glazed last winter. Our garden backs onto a dual carriageway with a mound separating us from it.

In the sitting room, where the windows fitted very well and there was ventilation via the chimney, it has not made much difference, if any. There may be less draught from the windows, but you can't tell with the curtains.

In the bedrooms where the vetilation was not good, the frames were rotting (slowly because was hardwood, but the putty had been in a bad way for years). I had to wipe them each morning and open them slightly to dry in the sun, and they still had black mould. These are much better. With the triple glazing, there is still a tinny hum from the road, if you listen for it. It is less disturbing, and the noise from the flats to the side (shouting, car doors, motorbikes) is greatly reduced. There is fine condensation on a very cold morning.

The large wooden double glazed custom made window, that was left, is noisiest. I suspect it is because the windows do not close tightly enough and the insulation is not good enough. Also, the gap in between the panes of glass in the sealed units is narrower than the new windows.

On the downside, the upvc ones expand in the summer sun and make the windows difficult to close again, until the evening. This was never a problem with the hardwood.

Ideally, I would have had double glazed hardwood, but that would have been double the cost of upvc and we have a lot of windows, mainly at the back of the house. Since everyone else in the area has used upvc, and some have even used white, there was no point paying so much more for them.

MillionPramMiles · 26/09/2014 07:03

Thanks all. The windows are casement rather than sash (softwood frames) so am hoping they won't cost the earth to replace. I hadn't thought about condensation, that's a good point.
The rest of the house is UPvc d glazed so will prob go for that. Has anyone any idea of the cost we should expect? The windows aren't particularly big.

OP posts:
RCheshire · 26/09/2014 09:38

People-over-egg the impact of double-glazing on heating costs - look into the numbers, it was a very good PR job in the 80s that has stuck with us. Your heating costs will not be notably different - certainly when you consider the replacement cost. People have already picked up on condensation. Go for thick lined curtains and make sure you fill in any holes letting draught in.

addictedtosugar · 26/09/2014 09:47

In one of the houses I lived in with a single glazed window, I had a big sheet of perspex, which clipped into the existing frame.
It made a big difference to the temperature of the room, but think that was draught proofing.
Screwed up newspaper in the frame worked pretty well in the next house.

PigletJohn · 26/09/2014 11:50

In the days when there was so much overcharging profit to be made selling replacement windows, I heard that there was no business case for buying them. The cost was so much greater than the energy saving that you would never recoup the cost.

But if you are building a new house, or your neglected windows have rotted away, it makes sense to get dg. Do be sure to get trickle vents included though.

Lweji · 26/09/2014 11:52

If the original windows are still good and look like they will last, an alternative is to install secondary glass (single glazed). It is actually better for sound and heat insulation.

But you can probably get away with heavy curtains.

HortenMarket · 26/09/2014 14:54

This sounds promising to me. We have just bought a house built in 1900 and it has all the original single glazed sash windows. I was dreading the winter as I hate being cold but we are having thick interlined curtains put in soon and the research I did on that suggested that can be as effective as double glazing and sometimes single-glazing and shutters are better at insulation than just a double glazed window. Who would have thought? It seems a shame to replace the windows as they are in pretty good nick and to replace with wooden double glazed sash would be upwards of £30 000 so I have been reliably informed. Although I may be singing a different tune after our first winter….

DayLillie · 26/09/2014 19:41

I was brought up in a victorian terrace with sash windows with huge gaps - used to get icicles inside in a cold winter (no central heating either). Plenty ventilation, so no condensation Grin

The nice big thick curtains used to work perfectly fine. My dad still has them.

If you have nice windows, it is probably better to go for secondary glazing if you can. Another choice in my house would have been to have had the single glazing replaced with double glazed units, but the frames would have needed to be thicker and stronger - one of my neighbours did it but had them replaced with upvc in the end. It is a shame that they were built with such lovely hardwood frames at a time when double glazing was becoming the norm, then they skimped on the thickness of the wood.

ItsDinah · 26/09/2014 19:48

If you are making your curtains then you can get good thick upholstery material that works well. If you are hard up, line normal curtains with shower curtains.

feelingmellow · 26/09/2014 20:02

First world problem Hmm

Lweji · 26/09/2014 20:14

So?

NinaRose · 27/09/2014 09:02

The thing that gets me with single glazing is the condensation. Wiping windows every morning is not fun, nor is having all windows open every morning in cold winter weather.

I also don't really buy the whole argument about curtains/shutters, it's not like you can be in the house during the day with all curtains shut so any benefit from thick curtains would only come in the evenings and night time.

My house has single glazed windows and I will replace them with thermally efficient hardwood double glazing as soon as I can afford to do so.

PigletJohn · 27/09/2014 09:50

until that day arrives, look at the plastic film.

Even with dg, you still need to ventilate your home. because the moisture will still be present, and will condense on the walls where it is less immediately noticeable.

Use the bathroom extractor fan and avoid draping wet washing in the house to minimise water vapour.

PigletJohn · 27/09/2014 19:50

very inexpensive and effective the DIY sheds and probably Wilko and Aldi will sell it as winter draws on.

wonkylegs · 28/09/2014 14:30

We moved into a house with large original single glazed Victorian sashes & replaced them with timber double glazed sashes - it felt warmer immediately & was considerably quieter (we live near an airport so it was easy to compare with the daily morning flight to Aberdeen!), we are now at a point when we can compare actual heating bills and they are notably lower.
This is partially the double glazing & partially the draught proofing.
The difference won't in itself justify the cost of the windows (a few hundreds of pounds a year v. Several thousand) but the house is more comfortable to live in, windows now open Grin , I don't miss the condensation & as we went an expensive route (handmade hardwood ornate sashes) they have added value to the house. It is seriously stunning (lots of people have commented on how beautiful they are) and will when the time comes be one of the reasons someone will buy this house.

lillythep · 01/10/2014 11:45

As has been said before, double glazing takes years & years to payback - so the savings in heating won't ever offset the cost of the new windows. Heavy curtains are the more cost effective solution.
However, when it comes to selling, double glazing may well make a positive difference in getting your asking price - as people immediately assume they will have to replace single for double glazed...

littlemonster · 01/10/2014 12:22

Having had both, I think the main difference with DG is noise, assuming the single glazed windows are in good condition.

HortenMarket, we lived in a flat built in 1900 with single glazed sashes, was not cold at all!

MinimalistMommi · 01/10/2014 13:09

My secondary glazing didn't work and we had into have it all ripped out from four rooms.

HortenMarket · 03/10/2014 14:22

littlemonster that is music to my ears!

bunchoffives · 03/10/2014 22:45

Does the secondary glazing film and tape come off cleanly in the spring? Or does it leave a messed up frame?

hillyhilly · 03/10/2014 22:57

For us the noise/ draught is not really an issue, the condensation is a bit of a pita but we give them a quick wipe and put on the dehumidifier (£109 from john Lewis).
We will not be replacing, who are we to change windows that are over 150 yrs old? But if we did it would only be in double glazed wood sash.

sunnydaylucy · 03/10/2014 23:15

We bought our 1930's bungalow last September. The front has original single paned-leaded windows, the back (more recent extension) has Upvc. After 3weeks of getting fed up with soaking wet window cills at the front we invested in a Karcher window Vac. Well worth the money (& they have come down in price, we paid £80, think they are nearer £60 now). Kids fight to use it so that's a bonus!
It is currently on charge in preparation for the cold weather.

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