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Original poster

Party wall agreement: neighbour is ignoring our request to agree

19 replies

whataboutbob · 03/09/2014 14:35

We are having a loft conversion done on our top floor flat. 5 weeks ago I approached the freeholder for the flat next door, he told me it was fine in principle, he just needed a week to think about it. I hoped at that point it wouldn't be necessary to appoint a surveyor. I gave him the architect's plans. 2 weeks later he still hadn't decided. When I contacted him next he was on holiday for 2 weeks. This week he's unavailable, etc etc.
Meanwhile the builders had to down tools for a week while we appointed a surveyor as requested by the freeholder on the other side, he has surveyed both sides. Basically this freeholder needs to sign a document saying he accepts our surveyor's report and does not object to the extension. Only he's never in or fobs us off.
Can his not signing jeopardise the project? Could it be an issue when we come to sell? Thanks for any info, we are getting stressed about it.

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Lifesalemon · 03/09/2014 21:49

Not sure if its the same with yours being a loft but our neighbour refused to sign when we were having an extension built. It was a Disability Facilities Grant so the council dealt with it. We were told by the council that he couldn't stop it happening as planning had been granted but it would delay it, which it did by about three months. This was about two and a half years ago so obviously things could have changed since then. Sorry I can't help more. Hope you get it sorted.

Original poster

whataboutbob · 04/09/2014 14:53

Thanks salmon. I have read around the subject and it seems if he does nothing we would have to appoint another surveyor on his behalf.
Any other input from mumsnetters would be appreciated.

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Littlepicklehead · 04/09/2014 19:46

Watching this with interest - we are also have issues with a non-communicative freeholder. We are a bit further along in that we have been given details of the surveyor they want us to use on their behalf, but we are now getting zero response to the requests for access to do the survey.

Not sure how long they can drag it on for as we issued the initial notice over 3 months ago, very frustrating!

superram · 07/09/2014 20:39

He doesn't have to sign your surveyors report. You are 'in dispute' so you may need to appoint a surveyor on his behalf or he can appoint his own. It will slow things gown and can go on for months, I hope you get it sorted.

Original poster

whataboutbob · 07/09/2014 22:06

Thanks. We are just carrying on with the conversion ,we feel we have done what we should: informing him, appointing and paying for a surveyor on his behalf.i am a bit uneasy as I feel, at the back of my mind, he is planning something. He s an estate agent.... As ever with property, it can probably be sorted out with an injection of cash, and everyone will want their cut ...

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schmee · 07/09/2014 22:08

I think it is normal to offer a payment for signing a party wall agreement.

Littlepicklehead · 08/09/2014 12:56

I would take advise on this. Has he dissented to the work which is why you have appointed a surveyor? To my limited knowledge (as advised by our current surveyor) if he has dissented to the work and agreed to a shared surveyor, the surveyor issues the award and I don't think the building owner needs to sign. Have you served an actual party wall notice? Of he's dicking around it might be easier to do it this way, there are then at least time limits on him responding to you. It doesn't look like he's planning on signing the agreement

Littlepicklehead · 08/09/2014 13:04

I've just re read your replies - don't do any building work until this is sorted out as legally you are on shaky ground. You need to serve an official party wall notice, he then has 14 days to either agree or dissent (no reply means he has dissented) then anther 10 days to give you details of his surveyor. If there is still no reply you can appoint a surveyor on their behalf, but it has to be a different one from the one you have used. The surveyors then work together to create a schedule of condition and draw up a party wall award. Once you have this you can start work.

It's very frustrating and we are waiting for or award before we can start, but if you start before you are leaving yourself open to claims for damage etc and it is risky. I'm not sure of the situation coming to sell but I'd imagine the award would need to be passed on to the solicitors

We used a company to serve the notice who gave us a fixed fee to do the survey work, they also do all the chasing etc.

Littlepicklehead · 08/09/2014 13:07

Oh and you need to issue separate notices and surveyors for each side (costly I know)

Greenrememberedhills · 08/09/2014 13:10

It is not normal to offer a payment to sign. If he won't, you need to pay for his surveyor as well as your own. Each surveyor represents the interest of "their" party. They agree a resolution between them.

If they can't reach one, you pay for a THIRD surveyor, who makes a decision one way or the other

That's how it works.

I know this as we had a loft done ourselves. One neighbour signed, the other invoked the party wall act, and we went through the above process. We didn't need a third surveyor as the first two were in agreement to proceed.

Original poster

whataboutbob · 08/09/2014 20:30

Well, the work is well and truly on, more than half way through and we can't really stop now. We served him notice 3 weeks before starting and he has done nothing just kept saying he doesn't have a problem with our loft conversion, but then never signed and makes himself unavailable and does t answer the surveyor's emails. I know he has asked his tenants recently if there have been any problems ( they answered truthfully that there weren't.). The surveyor has done both sides, he knows that and has not objected. I know it s not ideal but I just felt after spending £18000 down payment we had to proceed with the building work.

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Original poster

whataboutbob · 08/09/2014 20:32

Oh yes just to add we did serve party wall notice 3 weeks before starting, he said he d sign and didn't.

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Littlepicklehead · 08/09/2014 20:59

You will probably need proper legal advice on this. I have friends whose next door neighbours did a loft conversion without any party wall notice at all because they didn't know about it. Nothing terrible has happened but not sure what the situation will be if they sell.

It doesn't quite sound as if you have followed the proper process, as you have nothing written (I assume) to say he has agreed to a shared surveyor.

If he has agreed formally, then afaik had doesn't need to sign anything, and the surveyor can just make the award?

Most rics surveyors will offer free advice so I'd look up a local party wall surveyor on their site and ask them where you stand. You don't want to leave yourself open to your neighbour claiming that any cracks etc are down to your work

Littlepicklehead · 08/09/2014 21:03

Also 3 weeks before starting wasn't really enough time for the full process to be followed, he had 14 days to sign and as he didn't then he automatically disagreed and a dispute was opened (despite what he said verbally). He then had 10 days to either agree to a shared surveyor or appoint his own. If you then had no written response then you could appoint a surveyor on his behalf (can't be shared). No work should have started before this process had been completed.

The fact that he has spoken to his tenants about the work worries me a little, I would def get proper advice ASAP

PossumPoo · 08/09/2014 21:06

This could cost you, cracking on without having this sorted. Do you actually know what state of repair his flat is in? If it has cracks and things hanging off that could be attributed to your works, if you haven't done it correctly you are liable if you cant prove otherwise.

He deals with houses and is ignoring you and is a real estate agent... I wouldn't trust him!

zipzap · 08/09/2014 21:22

Do you think he has something planned because he knows you have started work and he hasn't signed?

Is there anything that he can do once the work is over - kick up a big fuss because he didn't sign, the work has been done, demand that you pay for x, y and z damage to be rectified or ??? - it could be that if he is an estate agent, he would know this and sees it as an easy way to make a few bob from you?

If I was in your position, I'd definitely be talking to my surveyor to find out what the worst outcomes were if you carry on with the work and the neighbour decides to kick up a fuss at some point down the line - you don't want to discover that you're liable for ££££ because of it!

Original poster

whataboutbob · 09/09/2014 20:41

Possum- too right I don t trust him!
It s the way he communicates very ambiguously that bothers me. Saying he ll do something then not following up., not being available, not answering emails etc
The work is in full swing and too late to stop it. I am thinking of just going into his agency and making an appointment to meet up and the thrashing this out face to face. If he wants us to appoint another surveyor then so be it.

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Original poster

whataboutbob · 09/09/2014 20:43

Zip zap we will definitely be raising your questions with the surveyor. I haven t done it yet because he suffered a personal tragedy last week, we will be in touch with him early next week. I m also going in for an operation Thursday, ho hum.

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MillyMollyMardy · 10/09/2014 11:25

What be very careful, we are in the midst of a party wall night
mare and as the others have said he hasn't signed anything so you are in dispute and i am absolutely sure he knows what he is doing.

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