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Original poster

Previous owners didn't get planning permission and now we're being asked to change the house!

46 replies

fassbender · 29/08/2014 19:58

Just looking for some advice please. We bought our Victorian semi in August 2012. It has UPVC double glazed windows and doors (except the front door)- the previous owners apparently spent a fortune on 'sash style' windows - they don't look like your typical plastic windows and look very in keeping with the Victorian house, they even have a 'grain' effect so they look like wooden window frames painted cream.

Anyway, apparently someone down the street wanted the same, applied for planning permission, using us as an example, and it turns out the council has obviously done a check on our house and the previous owners did not get planning permission. I have looked and there is nothing in the house info that we got through the solicitor saying as such, it says there is no outstanding planning issues and we thought it was legit as they are so sympathetic to the original windows.

We have today received a letter from the council saying that we need to replace ALL of the windows to timber sash style frames, unless the work was done over 4 years ago in which case we are exempt. The work was done April 2011, a year and a half before we bought it, so 3 1/2 years ago.

Does anyone have any advice?? There is no way in hell we could afford to replace all the windows and doors and we wouldn't have bought the house in the first place without the windows as they were as the heating bills would be extortionate!

I am waiting to hear back from both our solicitor and the lady who has issued the notice.

Thanks for any help/advice/experiences.

OP posts:

Floggingmolly · 29/08/2014 20:05

Is it a conservation area? Why would you need planning permission to change the windows?

DancingDinosaur · 29/08/2014 20:11

You do need planning permission for windows now. I think the solicitors is your best bet op, this should have been flagged up before you bought it.

Greencheese · 29/08/2014 20:16

Can they prove that the windows have only been in for 3.5 years? If not say theve been in for 4 and ask them to prove otherwise.

Ooooo things like this annoy me, especially if they are as you say in keeping with the house.

PenisesAreNotPink · 29/08/2014 20:19

You've a few choices.

Forget you got the letter til they send one recorded or is dropped off by hand. The incompetency or slowness of councils might buy your extra year.

Apply for retrospective permission and fight it. If you're not in a conservation area then you'll likely win.

I wouldn't have thought there's much merit in chasing the previous owners.

I wonder when this edict about windows came in your area, it's not here (south east)

KirstyJC · 29/08/2014 20:20

I was going to say what Greencheese said. Do you need to prove (or have you admitted) how long they were in for? If not - say it was 4 years ago.

If you can't get away with this then definitely chase the vendors/solicitors. Did the previous owners need planning but didn't realise this, or have the rules been changed since they were done?

PenisesAreNotPink · 29/08/2014 20:20

You only have to wait 6 months for this non-problem to go away

I'd ignore it

DancingDinosaur · 29/08/2014 20:26

I'd try and ignore it too. Drag it out a bit. Was the letter addressed to you or just the homeowner?

Original poster

fassbender · 29/08/2014 20:50

The letter was addressed to the Homeowner. Yep, the house is in a conservation area :( The letter says that I need to provide evidence the windows have been in for more than 4 years. We know it was 3.5 as we actually know the previous owners (friends of my ILs) and we know the company they got them from (local company) so we just rung them up to find out exactly when they were installed.

OP posts:

DancingDinosaur · 29/08/2014 20:54

I'd ignore it if it isn't directly addressed to you. Wait for them to get your name and address the issue properly. Sounds a bit lazy on the councils behalf.

Original poster

fassbender · 29/08/2014 21:01

Thanks everyone, maybe if we ignore it, 6 months will pass and then it WILL be 4 years since they were installed... not something I want hanging over my head though :(

OP posts:

Polonium · 29/08/2014 21:04

Given your neighbour has been refused permission, it's unlikely you'll be granted retrospective permission for the same thing.

tryingtocatchthewind · 29/08/2014 21:04

I would go ballistic with your solicitor here, it's what you pay them for. It has been standard for years that change of windows in a conservation area requires planning permission. It is your duty to prove the windows were put in more than 4 years ago not the Councils duty. It is an offence to put something in without planning permission and unfortunately this goes with the property not the people who did it. Don't worry the Council won't go all guns blazing they will give you opportunity to apply for planning permission, if they refuse you can always appeal to the planning inspectorate who might be more lenient. It takes years before the Council would actually come and remove the windows (and charge for it) but it could happen.
Oh and sadly now the Council have found out and highlighted the issue before the 4 years then that's it I'm afraid, they only have to make the first move so to speak then it doesn't matter how long the next bit takes.
Sorry crazy long reply

Polonium · 29/08/2014 21:06

Don't ignore it. That would be daft. You need to look over your sales documents. Get in touch with the lawyer who handled your conveyance.

MrsWinnibago · 29/08/2014 21:11

I think you need to sue the solicitor for the money to pay. Get legal advice on MN legal.

Polonium · 29/08/2014 21:12

I would go easy on going ballistic with the solicitor. It's perfectly possible that the vendors were misleading you.

SolomanDaisy · 29/08/2014 21:12

This happened to us. We hired a planning consultant to talk to the council and the result of them having an informal chat was we were told to ignore it, keep quiet and the council wouldn't take enforcement action. That's what happened. We sold a while ago, declaring the issue, and the windows are still there.

Fairywhitebear · 29/08/2014 21:14

I'd ignore it. Buy yourself that extra 6 months. Then if another letter comes, then contact your solicitor.

Seriously. they won't chase this up!

samsam123 · 29/08/2014 21:17

what does the four year rule apply to is it only changing widows or all planning things

Shallan · 29/08/2014 21:17

Did you tell your solicitor that the windows had been replaced, and the timing? If so, they should have flagged to you that there was no planning permission. If you didn't tell them, then they wouldn't know about the windows so would have no reason to look for a permission.

Just worth checking before you "go ballistic" or try to sue them, it may not be their fault at all.

Shallan · 29/08/2014 21:20

I think that the 4 year rule allows you to keep unauthorised alterations if the council don't take enforcement action in that time, but writing to you to raise the issue counts as enforcement action. They've raised it, so you need to deal with it - ignoring the issue for 6 months won't help, they can still pursue it.

DancingDinosaur · 29/08/2014 21:21

We had a vaguely similar thing regarding a gate in our garden leading onto parkland. Everyone in the road has one. The council wrote (addressed it to the home owner) asking for a yearly rent to use it or get rid of the gate. We ignored it. Not heard anything since in 5 years. Although I know the council hasn't got the resources to find out everyones names and take it further at the present time.

AngelinaCongleton · 29/08/2014 21:24

Ask the company to say it was 4 years ago.

Original poster

fassbender · 29/08/2014 22:55

Thanks again to everyone.

I was having a look through our sales documents. Basically, on the 'Home information' sheet (which the seller fills out about their property e.g. fixtures/fitting/electricl works etc) there is a bit that asks if there has been any adjustments to the windows/doors etc. The vendors said yes and then put 2011 as the date. A bit further down the document it asks 'are there any planning or building issues to resolve?', which the vendors ticked 'no' to. So I don't really blame the solicitor as I wouldn't have expected her to follow that up as such - but the more I think about it, the more I would have a case for asking the vendors to pay for any replacements.

OP posts:

DancingDinosaur · 29/08/2014 23:01

Yes absolutely op. If it comes to it I would think you have a case against the sellers.

Original poster

fassbender · 29/08/2014 23:02

SolomanDaisy, where did you hire your planning consultant from please?

OP posts:

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