Tricky planning question

[ohnoyou]

So we have full planning permission which is great, however we had to take off a part of our downstairs area as the planners said it needed to be 3 metres away from our adjoining neighbours boundary. Fair enough, except our neighbours who we are friendly with have just been informed that their planning which is very similar to our original plans will be fine. In fact they will be building on our boundary. At present we have an old conservatory which will need to come down so they can build theirs, which is fine, but we are now left with a 3 metre by 4 metre gap.
To bridge the gap we had a conservatory firm out and they assured us we can put another up under permitted development, so we're wondering if we could take the 3x4 metre bit of our original plans and put that in under permitted development?
We've looked on the planning portal but we can't work out if we need to put in for permitted development before we start work on the main build for this to be viable.
Despite ours/neighbours houses being joined 1930's semi's with similar sized gardens similar plans using the same architect we've had a difficult time getting ours through planning, i.e. we had to have 2 bat surveys our neighbours haven't, we've been refused our neighbours accepted etc. etc. So, we're reluctant to ask our planning officer at this stage so any thoughts/experience would be much appreciated.

I'll start by stating that I'm in Scotland so different rules / regs may apply.

I'm also in a 30s semi and I think what we might be able to do will be different to what either our attached neighbour and driveway neighbour will be able to do purely based on the aspect of the houses.

We are on a slight hill so our driveway neighbour was refused permission for a rear extension as it would affect our privacy and light, especially as their property is to the south of us. We have a rear conservatory as does two up and two down.

We are currently planning to replace our conservatory with a rear extension and I think, like you, we'd have to keep it 3m from the boundary of our attached neighbour.

Your issue with the bat survey is strange. I can't answer that. A phone call to the Planning Dept may do.

With regard to permitted development, we thought our 5m x 3.6m extension would fall within PD but the architect designed the roof 30cm too high and we need full planning (yes, 30vm! Grr!). Just be really careful with dimensions.

You also appear to be knocking down one conservatory to build another? And that your neighbour needs you to take down your conservatory to facilitate their extension? Have you actually agreed to this, in writing? I hope they are paying for the work, plus a bit extra for your inconvenience and potential loss of house value! What if you don't go ahead with your plans? What is their Plan B for their build? If you are concerned and have legal cover on your home insurance it may be worth giving them a call. I also think your mortgage company may be interested in any work that would adversely affect the value of your property.

What daylight will your potential new conservatory get if its surrounded by brick walls? Glass roofs are hot in summer / cold in winter - despite what the salesfolk try to tell you!

I would go back to your architect for advice, but I'd also be wary of a conflict of interests if they are also assisting your neighbour, especially in relation to the boundary issue.

Hi Caley
thanks for replying we are also on a slight hill but I don't think this has an effect on the planning in our case.
Yes we did agree to using a party wall as we were going to both build our extensions from it, us keying off to the left, our neighbours to the right. As our conservatory is of brick construction and runs along the 'planned' party wall it will have to be demolished to allow footings etc. to be laid. If it was to stay there would be a 1/2 metre gap between our new build and our old conservatory so although I would rather not lose it, it would look odd if left.
Yes there is a bit of conflict in using the same architect, but, to be fair our architect agreed to do the neighbours drawings as the council would not consider ours until theirs were in. Then the council wanted us to do a legal agreement which we said we would and we would pay for, but the neighbours decided not to. So we took the 'offending section' off our plans and resubmitted.
Having just been informed that the neighbours plans will go through we are trying to get as close to what we originally wanted, in the least painless way.
The bat thing was just crazy and expensive with councils ecologist twice saying different to their written advice. Sigh, planning has been an expensive nightmare for us.
Anyway,sorry for the essay, and very sorry for you and your roof height, is there no way it can be lowered?

It sounds insane that you both want to extend out from the same boundary wall but you get turned down and your neighbour gets permission. Have the Council given any reason for their thinking at all? I wonder if giving them a call would shed any light on it as surely the two extensions would make better sense being 'twins' of each other rather than different.
We've just gone for full planning with our plans as they were. Would have been time / expense for them to be redrawn, again with no assurance it would actually fall under PD. Still cheesed off with architect and think builder is cheesed off with us for not going for full planning in the first place!

Caley, I'm not surprised your annoyed with your architect, I hope he/she is compensating you!
We assume the neighbours have passed because at the moment we have a conservatory so their extension will not be over bearing on us. However, as I said previously our conservatory will have to come down. We both have the same planning officer so they know this, and our plans have passed.
The rebel in me thinks we'll just build it and go for retrospective planning permission, or let them take us to court. But my husband very sensibly I suppose likes to do things by the book.

Double post above - sorry. Have asked MNHQ to remove.

Love your attitude to just 'go for it'! It seems Planning only get involved in 'irregular' builds if someone complains - hence all the posts on here about folk looking to buy property without planning for extensions etc.

You should consider putting in a sneaky Building Warrant application with your plans as you want them. They sign off all the insulation / safety aspects of a build and if they don't talk to their Planning colleagues you might get away with an 'approved' build that way! Sly!

Our local planning website lets you see neighbour’s plans, plus a note on the planning decision and why - but just usually boring such as 'does not contravene local plans' etc. Might be worth a look for more info on the thinking behind your neighbour’s plans.

We are 8 weeks behind schedule as we wait the Council’s full Planning decision AND the architect fecked off on a two week holiday giving us one day's notice so plans were resubmitted on his return. Grrr.

Had hoped to get it built before Xmas but not looking likely. I'm due at end of January and certainly not having a newborn PLUS a team of builders and associated dust (we are taking down external and internal walls) so now aiming for next Summer and I'll decamp to my parent's for a month (leaving strict and detailed instructions for my OH)! I know exactly how I want my new kitchen to look...

It's a PITA but it'll be done when it's done, gives us more time to sort out the finances and we'll have a fab family bathroom, and new kitchen/diner/playroom at the end of it.

There is a simple solution to this - you just need to wait for your neighbour to implement their planning permission. Then resubmit. You'll get permission then. But this could be up to 3 years, or never.

It seems to me that your neighbour's was OK because you already have an extension and yours wasn't because they don't. Them having planning permission for an extension doesn't make any difference as it may never be implemented. I'm assuming they wouldn't sign a Section 106 agreement to agree to build the extensions at the same time? You could get round this if they are willing by submitting one application for both sides and then controlling it by condition. But if they are unwilling to be tied down to a timetable rather than unwilling to sign a legal agreement then this won't work.

The conservatory may be PD on its own (impossible to establish from your posts) but not as part of a wider building operation for the whole extension. You could finish the extension, occupy it then put in a Certificate of Lawfulness for the conservatory. Whatever you do don't trust the word of a conservatory company about what needs permission or not. Their advice ranges from the deliberately misleading to simply out of date.

And getting Building Regulations approval for an extension does not absolve you of any requirement for planning permission.

Can't help on the bat survey - we never ask for bat surveys with householder applications but I know some authorities do. We consider it duplicates other legislation that people would need to adhere to.

Many thanks MissMarjoribanks. The section 106 agreement was a good option for us, but exactly as you say, the neighbours didn't want to commit to simultaneous completion (and I can't say I blame them).

I guess we'll just have to build the part we have permission for and then resubmit for the additional bit once the neighbours have built theirs. Fortunately, they're really keen to get going asap and their planning decision is iminent, so all being well, we shouldn't have to wait too long to be in that position. It will also give us more time to consider the conservatory vs. solid structure decision.

...and of course, we won't need any more bat surveys!

Thanks again for your response.

Thanks caley and marge, that was my husbands previous post I've a house full at the mo, but will have a proper read through in the morning. Husband seems clearer as to what we should do, so thanks again x