Not allowed to lay more laminate flooring in flat: is there a way round it?

[stargirl04]

Hi, I bought my top floor flat (built 2005) a couple of months ago and want to lay new laminate flooring throughout the flat.

The lounge and hallway are already laminated, but it is a cheap laminate and is chipping; while the bedrooms have (horrible) carpets. I would like to put in new laminate in throughout.

However, the management company said No. They said the previous laminate must have been put in without permission and do not want me to lay any more in the bedrooms.

I told them that almost every flat in the block has laminate (as per Rightmove) but they said that must have been done without permission too.

My solicitor told me today that my lease states that I must "maintain adequate close carpeting with underfelt or underlay throughout the demised premises or take such other steps in relation to the composition or covering of the floors of the premises as the lessor may reasonably deem adequate having regard to the peace and quiet of the occupants in the block or in accordance with any relevant building regulation".

My solicitor said that as long as I "provided adequate sound proofing the lease does not specifically say you cannot lay the same".

Has anyone got any advice? I hate carpets. My sister said that if I install vinyl floors they are much quieter than laminate and the management company should not have a problem with that.

The management company can't give me an answer for two weeks as their director is on holiday and I have friends visiting from overseas in a few weeks and am desperate to get the floors done as I am still living among cardboard boxes. (I just thought it would be easier to get the floors done before putting big furniture items into small bedrooms.)

Has anyone got any advice or has anyone been in this situation? How can I resolve it. I really don't want carpets if I can help it.

Thanks for reading.

The clause in your lease is to do with sound ie they do not want complaints from the person living below you (and living below cheap laminate throughout is miserable and LOUD). I think you can get special underlay or sound proofed flooring which they may allow if you can demonstrate that it will be similar sound level to carpet when walked on with shoes. Not sure how it compares pricewise though. Your solicitor has said this already thoughso I am not sure I've helped!

I think vinyl could be a good compromise (nb. I really hate laminate flooring anyway!) we have karndean and it's fooled lots of people into thinking it was real wood. Much more durable too.

It will be to do with sound- nuisance noise from laminate floors is a huge issue in some blocks of flats.

if you put down laminate flooring in a flat, there is always a risk that your downstairs neighbours will come up and murder you when their tolerance has been exhausted, or maybe just take you to court.

The noise can be intolerable.

Laminate can be really cheap and nasty looking.

Look at alternatives such as karndean and the other one I can't remember

Thanks for the advice guys. I am happy to pay a bit more for a better material that is quieter, and good-quality underlay.

Is it correct that vinyl flooring is quieter than laminate?

If so, then that's what I'll get.

you say that

"My solicitor told me today that my lease states that I must "maintain adequate close carpeting with underfelt or underlay throughout the demised premises or take such other steps in relation to the composition or covering of the floors of the premises as the lessor may reasonably deem adequate having regard to the peace and quiet of the occupants in the block or in accordance with any relevant building regulation"."

so if either the freeholder or the downstairs neighbour sues you, or the downstairs neighbour makes a complaint, will you have any defence?

Wickes have excellent insulation sheets - they look like green compressed paper and are fairly small so easy to lay. I used them in an upstairs room as they were cheap but you could not hear any sound at all if someone used that room.
We put chipboard over the sheets then lino.

Hi Piglet John, my solicitor said I am covered by the statement: " or take such other steps in relation to the composition or covering of the floors".

Because, she says, it does not specifically bar laminated flooring provided that I provide adequate sound insulation.

Of course, solicitors can be wrong sometimes....

I'll see what the management company comes back with.

but "as the lessor may reasonably deem adequate"

so if they don't....

you can get some really good sound absorbing underlay these days - even better than the green fibreboards. I can't comment on vinyl being quieter (I have it in my bathroom, it's certainly less noisy than the bare floorboards in one bedroom, but then it's also out in an extension so it's not a fair comparison), but you have to have a very flat sub-floor so it's likely that the preparation for it is thicker, and so absorbs sound better too.

The other thing is not to allow shoes in the flat - hard soles on laminate are a lot noisier than bare feet.

Fair point, PJ, thanks for pointing this out. I will work with the management company on this.

I rang them back,. after talking to my sister, who had the same issue, and asked them if vinyl floors, rather than laminate, would be okay and they seemed more amenable to this option, but that they'd have to get back to me in two weeks' time ... sigh...

Thanks Chunkypickle. Before I do anything (as my lounge and hallway were already laminated before I bought the flat) I will in future ask visitors to take their shoes off to minimise the noise impact.

OliviaB, thanks for the Karndean recommendation. It may be something I can look at buying if I get the go-ahead....

We have amtico (is like karndean) in 2 upstairs bathrooms).

I really wouldn't say that it is significantly quieter than laminate (to such an extent as to prevent downstairs neighbour being disturbed in bedrooms/sitting room, which is where they would have a reasonable expectation of relative quiet) and is certainly noisier than carpet.

I lived in an apartment where the person upstairs had laminate flooring which was so against the lease rules. It used to piss me right off. Cluck cluck all the time. I complained and the person living upstairs were made to replace their flooring.

Just saying

you didn't take up my suggestion about murdering them, then?

My upstairs neighbours have it and it's sooo loud. Annoyingly both of our leases say we need carpet and I don't want it so it's hard for me to make them do it if I'm not (I'm ground floor so not a noise problem). I'm thinking of just appealing to their better nature.

Or murdering them.

My sister's upstairs neighbour took out the carpets and replaced them with laminate. The sound of him walking about the flat was beyond irritating and was one of the main reasons she moved out.

Please don't do it. It will seriously piss off your downstairs neighbours.

Look at Polyflor Camero

Well, having read these posts I just hadn't realised how bad the noise would be after laying laminate. But I hear you loud and clear! (No pun intended.)

I've already decided I won't use laminate now, come what may. I'd still like to use an alternative to carpet - or anything that resembles carpet - such as vinyl perhaps, provided I can find something that won't p**s off the neighbours living below.

It would be great if I could just find an expert who could say: "You need to buy this, it costs xxxx and it will be as quiet as carpet, or almost as quiet."

I guess I'll just keep asking around. And if it's carpets or nothing then so be it.

You're a good neighbour!

We live in flats where all the properties have engineered wood flooring and I've not noticed any noise from the flat above, nor had any complaints from below. We always remove shoes as soon as we get in (but wear slippers), and there aren't very young children living in any of the flats so just normal walking around. It had high spec fittings as a new build so I'm guessing the underlay was very good quality.

That's interesting Evergreen. And very helpful.

At the moment I'm considering specialist underlay or sound-proofing plus vinyl or similar. But the cost of that is probably on a par with engineered wood plus specialist underlay.

I'm going to consider all other options and keep talking to whoever I can about it - my neighbours, the folks at B&Q and carpet shop staff to start with, and then see what the management company says.

I was in a hurry as I have friends from overseas coming to stay at the end of September, and I have no furniture in my flat yet as I wanted to get the floors done first, but I'll just have to work around that, I guess.

Living in a flat when the one above has laminate or wood floors is a nightmare. A lot of the claims made for insulating boards etc are frankly exaggerated.
Anyone living in a flat with such floors who does not want to be murdered or sued by their neighbour below should wear slippers at home. Also keep a few spare pairs for friends and family when they visit.
Noise pollution can be as bad as sewage.

The owner of the flat above mine laid laminate flooring and reassured me that he would use the best quality underlay for soundproofing.

I can hear everything, every step, every movement. If they put their mug down on the floor I can hear that, if they turn over in their creaky wooden bed, I hear that too.
Parties are hell.
It's fashionable to consider carpet as old fashioned, and unhygienic but it has a lot of good points. I don't think I would feel quite so resentful of the landlord of the upstairs flat had I not been forced to hear his tenants' every move.