Help- neighbour seeking permission for new house next to ours

[Blueskies80]

Hi all,

Please be kind with me- first time posting here!

Our neighbours have just submitted for planning permission to knock down their garage and an existing side extension to build a four storey detached house! we got a huge shock as we knew they were submitting for planning for something but they had implied it was an extension.

We are in a detached 1930s house but the boundary of the property is the edge of the building, and the guttering is the furthest part.
They are a semi detached house and propose to build a skinny (~4m wide) tall house (3 storeys at front and 4 behind) by knocking down their garage and a small one storey side extension used as a store. This would be about 3 feet from our property (on their land). We are in s e London where prices have gone bananas recently so obviously it would sell quickly in future.

The proposed property would block light and affect our view of woodland at the front of the property, at the rear our conservatory would look out onto a brick wall and I think it would affect the amount of sunlight in our back garden too. We are also concerned it could affect the structural integrity of our property and concerned about the extensive disruption caused by ongoing construction works (up to a year was an estimate a builder gave me). It would also look very out of character with the other houses on the street.

We feel our neighbours have been off hand with us over the whole matter, since they gave no indication of the scale of the proposal, and at the same time they told us (on easter sunday with our kids playing around us) us that our boundary wall at the front was encroaching on their land when in fact it is in line with the edge of our house/boundary (and their planning permission plans show it in the right place where it currently stands).

They have told us that they could have objected to the council about our conservatory which was put up in 1989 according to our vendor, but we don't have any planning paperwork for this. I am concerned that if we run the argument to object that the proposal would mean our conservatory looks onto a brick walk that they will say well it shouldnt have been there.

I have spoken to one local resident and also the local residents association who are both against the development and will object. To add to this the yellow sign has not been displayed and the consultation only runs for another 2 weeks.

I wondered if

1. anyone has any experience on how to best argue a case to the planning officers and

2. whether anyone has any experience re whether we should seek a certificate of lawful development for the conservatory. I do have contact details for the previous owner so was thinking I could try to get him to certify that it has been there for more than 4 years (after which point I believe the council can't take enforcement action).

Thanks for reading and sorry this is so long. Any thoughts or help would be very gratefully received. X

The party wall agreement would cover damage to your property and planning will not take into account the hassle the building work will cause you-unfortunately!
Stick to facts, the council want to grant permission as they need houses but this sounds out of keeping with the area and too dense for such a small plot. Think about parking.
Don't worry about your conservatory as they should have reported it years ago if it was a problem, nothing planners can do now.
You don't have a right to light or the view but if it changes you being overlooked you have more of a case.

Thanks for your thoughts superram. the house includes a garage. The aspect of our house would change as we would feel more hemmed in (if thats the right expression) at front and back with a large building right next to us and visible from bay at front and conservatory at back. They don't plan on side windows as far as I can see.
We are an old railway house so vaguely historical from a rail history point of view but not listed anywhere.

It will look ridiculous in the plot as its such a small site.

Sorry to add but do the planners consider the safety of such sites? We have two young children and the site will be right next to our garden at back.

The site will have to cover health and safety regs but that's as standard. You can report instances of neglect/issues happening on the site. This can lead to closure of the site until investigation has been completed.

But 2 children living next door will not be a point the council really take as a valid reason to reject.

'Proposed development would be visually intrusive, create a dominant and oppressive environment to the detriment of neighbouring properties.....loss of privacy...' Just a snippet from planning decision on a house neighbours wanted to squeeze in between their house and my in laws.
Ignore the nonsense about your conservatory

Thank you pancake flipper - I will know what to do if we do end up in this position.
And kilmuir - that's really very useful too, that situation sounds very similar to ours.

I have no idea if it makes any difference but I would call the planning dept for a chat and point out your concerns already.

Thanks jaynebxl- I have done so already with initial concerns and will do so again next week once I've marshalled my case.
I can't believe they haven't put the yellow sign up! (I have told the council this too)

Remember that this building application is not a small change, it is a drastic change from your description.

The planning team should be looking at it with furrowed brows. It sets a president if permitted. And they will be expecting challenges from the neighbourhood.

As the others say a conservatory that you did not build is a totally different issue. Don't let them bully you with that.

I would also keep a note of dates and the interaction you have with your neighbours. Not saying it will be needed but the odd case can get nasty and having facts always help.

Did you receive a letter from the council consulting you about the planning application?

I am currently involved in a planning issue where the council had to extend the consultation period because a notice had not been posted. I not sure what the legal requirement for this it, but it might be something that you want to mention to the planning officer the next time you speak with them.

They are lots of good websites detailing how to object to a planning application so have a look at those.

Many London councils will have quite detailed planning documents drawn up. You'll need to find these an use reference them in your objection to make a strong case.

Regarding the issues of light- was there a light study submitted with the application? Building that tall so close to your property is extremely likely to overlook your property or reduce your light. It might be worth having a quick chat with a light surveyor to get their views on it.

And, if they didn't object to your conservatory in 1989 they are just going to have to suck it now.

I'm no expert and might be wrong about the following but...

Parking is important even if it has a garage it might not meet suggested parking requirements (set by the local planning department) and might mean a loss of on street parking particularly as their current house will be losing it's parking/garage. Parking, I think are just guidelines but are important to raise. I would think that removing the exciting garage is part of the planning application so can be raised with reference to the parking for their current house as well as for the new build.

I'm no to sure about the details but my parents and lots of others objected to the building of some flats. One of the arguments used was that the area already had more flats than where required in the future development plan(again your local council should have one). So might be worth finding out if what they are building is considered necessary in your area for example might be already have to many x bedroom houses so this development is not necessary.

Also go on your local planning portal and have a look at other planning application objections and see if they are relevant to you. Particularly if planning was refused. Be careful though as some might not be valid arguments.

Good luck

A site notice isn't always required by the regulations. Usually it is either letters to neighbours (which I assume arrived as you know about it) or a site notice, not both. Town and Country Planning (Development Management Procedure) Order 2010 if you want to take a look.

A 4m wide 3/4 storey house sounds a bit, erm, cramped. And out of keeping with a railway cottage. What is the projection front and rear beyond your original elevations? There should be some sort of guidance your Council has on the maximum acceptable projection.

And don't worry about the conservatory, it was probably permitted development at the time it was built and is immune from enforcement action after 4 years anyway. You could get a Certificate of Lawfulness with evidence of 4 years in situ but I would do it to help sell your house, not for this.

Your children living next to a building site is not a valid planning reason and is best left off any letter of objection. Stick to planning reasons, the main ones for this type of development are:-

• residential amenity (overlooking, overshadowing, overbearing impact)
• visual amenity (design, appearance, out of keeping with neighbouring properties, cramped, plot ratios)
• highway safety (parking availability, turning, visibility splays, obstruction of highway.

Not material planning considerations:-

• property values
• encroachment, boundaries and party walls
• disruption during construction
• safety during construction
• matters covered by the Building Regulations

Hope this helps.

I would get together with the residents association as they may have lots of experience in these planning issues, but you cannot argue right to a view, right to light I thought was okay, ie, you cannot build in front of someone's window. There are calculations architects usually follow to ensure this is taken into account. Have they appointed an architect? Being overlooked is also one (although they will argue they have addressed this with no side windows) and parking. I would also write them a strongly worded letter saying you want them to pay for a party wall surveyor to ensure your building isn't harmed, especially if you are in clay or on a slope and ask them what size the footings will be. Building control, also usually part of the council, will deal with these issues and the integrity of the new building.
The builder is responsible for the site, if it goes ahead you need to take it up with them.

Don't give your conservatory a second thought. They we just trying to make you feel unable to speak your mind. It runs out I believe after 10 years so they haven't a leg to stand on, They sound like they have been early poor connunicators to the point of deliberately misleading you. I would kick up merry hell. Good luck op, they sound like cheeky feckers.

This will be helpful. www.rtpi.org.uk/media/686895/Material-Planning-Considerations.pdf

Guys thank you so much for your helpful thoughts. It's been a stressful time so your thoughts are very much appreciated.

Snowman1 - we are clay and a slope site both sideways and front to back. With big trees not that far away (their side). About the worst possible situation from that perspective. If it does go through we would write re party wall notice (possibly from a solicitor).

Miss m - that's really helpful thank you.

Karron I hadn't thought about the parking issue like that so will consider using that too.

Cali burrito yes we had a lett from our planning authority but other neighbours across the road haven't been consulted.

Pancake flipper I have a note of our meeting with them but will write down other interactions with them.

We have just done a letter drop to make people aware across and further uo and down road by sharing a copy of the councils letter.

Thanks so much guys xx

My thoughts on this are that you need to see if similar properties have been permitted in your location by your Council. Or indeed not permitted. You also need to be aware of any local plan that the Council adheres to for your particular area. If similar developments have been permitted, you still need to object on the grounds others have outlined. If similar applications have been rejected, it is important to read the reasons why and form your objections along similar lines, assuming the reasons given apply to your street. Is this house going to be taller than anything else in the street? Is there another development that sets a precedent, or have similar size houses been resisted?

The Council may only be required to notify adjoining properties but I would ask why there are no planning notices put up so the general public know what is proposed.

Our neighbour had to change their plans for a single story rear extension because the roof line would have been detrimental to the light to our property. The residents of our property at the time didn't even object, the council raised this all on their own. Totally different situation and someone up thread said that you don't have a right to light but I do think there are some laws on it that you could look into. Good luck!

Hi guys
Just to reiterate my thanks to you all. Have started writing the letter and have so much to go on. I love mumsnet! X

Just one piece of advice: it really, really helps a planning case if you stick firmly to the kind of evidence that the planners can refer to. In other words, don't personalise it, don't mention things that are not planning considerations (e.g. safety of site), don't refer to any history - these just make you look like a NIMBY lunatic instead of someone with a rational case against. The vast majority of people who complain about planning applications get this wrong.

There is a voluntary service called Planning Aid that offers free advice, who might be able to help (google for an email/phone number).

You may also find this helpful: www.rtpi.org.uk/media/686895/Material-Planning-Considerations.pdf

Thank you! I fear I had started to go down the history route too far (the station that was at bottom of garden was on a recent BBc 4 documentary apparently..)... But am now marshalling case around amenity impacts / material planning concerns. I will mention the historic angle briefly though but case base around the planning issues. Thanks.

Sorry, I should have been clearer - I think the historical angle of the building itself is an important one for you to note in the letter, I meant more 'don't mention a history of bad blood with the neighbour as it's irrelevant'. But you sound like you're too sensible to do that!!

Speak to your local councillors as well as the residents' association. It would be helpful if they also object.

My advice is to look at the submitted plans carefully, before writing your response. You have had lots of useful advice especially from MissMarjorie. "Overdevelopment of the site" is a useful phrase to use.

Hi external wall- oh yes im not going to mention the whole sorry saga! Would waste precious words! the historical building angle is useful too but am focussing on planning issues really.
Pickled radish- thank you. That phrase is very helpful and miss m's thoughts have been invaluable. X